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US house panel votes in age [67]

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Old 07-20-2023 | 02:13 PM
  #481  
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Originally Posted by ATOP40
May depend on the carrier.

It is only saying that if you reached 65 before the bill becomes law you can work for an operation that is required to abide by this rule as long as you are not 67 or older.

That is my interpretation.
That is exactly what the (current) language says.

I doubt the GOP would tolerate any snap-back provisions since that would be costly and disruptive to majors... even more so than this will already be.

If retired 65-67 year olds take jobs in other 121 sectors, mission accomplished, butts in seats.
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Old 07-20-2023 | 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy
I posted this with the text just so everyone could see how poorly this is worded in current legislation. It really needs to be cleaned up. I'm waiting to see what comes out of the Senate on this issue; hopefully it's more detailed.

Even if ALPA doesn't get involved with cleaning up the language, there's still likely to be some inputs from the FAA and airlines to tighten up the language.
It would probably be best if the language specifies directly that retirees are not entitled to return to previous positions. It's kind of implied, but somebody would probably sue and who knows what might come of that.

In 2007 there was language that said they not only don't get to come back to their previous position but also that they can't come back at all... so only those under 60 on the effective got another five years. I don't think they'd do the later provision this time... the whole point is to keep those flying something, somewhere.
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Old 07-20-2023 | 02:21 PM
  #483  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
It would probably be best if the language specifies directly that retirees are not entitled to return to previous positions. It's kind of implied, but somebody would probably sue and who knows what might come of that.

In 2007 there was language that said they not only don't get to come back to their previous position but also that they can't come back at all... so only those under 60 on the effective got another five years. I don't think they'd do the later provision this time... the whole point is to keep those flying something, somewhere.
It’s really simple. Just require those 65-67 to go back to a regional if they still want to fly. That’s where they are needed, not at the majors. Problem solved.
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Old 07-20-2023 | 02:24 PM
  #484  
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Originally Posted by Nucflash
The standalone bills in the House and Senate are basically intended to smokescreen the process and to promote the PR campaign (Graham’s press conference, etc). They don’t have a chance. Clearly, it is MUCH more simple to tack something like this on to a more important bill of massive proportion than to pass it in both houses and have it signed by Biden as a standalone.
Yes, this. The original bills were PR, recon by fire, and staking some territory for their fellow congress-critters to see. Basically saying "this is what WE care about, so if you want support for YOUR stuff, then our thing had better be in the re-authorization.

It's a complicated dance, as I learned to my dismay while working on appropriations in the mil.

Originally Posted by Nucflash
Now, it just so happens that there is a very senior Delta pilot with the same last name who lives just outside Houston, in the same town in which Congressman Nehls lives, which is in the same county where Nehls was formerly the sheriff. That is also TRUE. Coincidence? I’m certainly not going to post personal information here; you can source that for yourselves.
Even so, the guy's brother (if that's who he is) wasn't going to change things much either way. This is too big to have gone down because some senior boomer called up his brother in congress and asked for a couple more years on the job. I wouldn't strictly rule out that some tiny pork provision could get into some big bill because of somebody's brother but this one is too public with way too many ramifications for that.

Now if the brother had been an airline CEO... that's exactly how we got age 60 in the first place way back when.
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Old 07-20-2023 | 03:14 PM
  #485  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
Even so, the guy's brother (if that's who he is) wasn't going to change things much either way. This is too big to have gone down because some senior boomer called up his brother in congress and asked for a couple more years on the job. I wouldn't strictly rule out that some tiny pork provision could get into some big bill because of somebody's brother but this one is too public with way too many ramifications for that.
True, that would be implausible. “Captain Nehls”, kicking around down on the TX ranch with his bro the former sheriff (now congressman) might have mentioned it once or twice….just maybe, and definitely only “in passing”… But it’s mainly guys like these…….and their ten buddies, and their ten buddies, and their ten buddies, and so on ad infinitem….
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Old 07-20-2023 | 05:44 PM
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I hope they all rot in hell.

I hope that all the pilots in this idiot’s district can look past their party and vote him out when the time comes. 2007 and 2008 were in the top 4 worst events in aviation. Congress directly enacted one of them. One exacerbated the other immensely and here we go again repeating history.
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Old 07-20-2023 | 05:46 PM
  #487  
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Originally Posted by Bahamasflyer
It’s really simple. Just require those 65-67 to go back to a regional if they still want to fly. That’s where they are needed, not at the majors. Problem solved.
How do you do that legally? It wouldn't hold up to any legal challenge.

The FAA, in defense of the regionals and bottom feeders, has long held that all 121 operators are held to a common standard. They can't exactly set a lower standard based on the economic situation. Not that it would hold up in court anyway.
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Old 07-20-2023 | 06:53 PM
  #488  
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Here's a better idea. Need butts in seats at a regional? Lower the ATP age from 23 to 18 or 21. Why can we make guys fly longer, but we don't lower the age on the other end? I haven't heard anyone talk about that at all. We're keeping the highest earners and oldest of the group over new blood and cheap labor. You'd think airlines would be all over that.
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Old 07-20-2023 | 06:57 PM
  #489  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
How do you do that legally? I wouldn't hold up to any legal challenge.

The FAA, in defense of the regionals and bottom feeders, has long held that all 121 operators are held to a common standard. They can't exactly set a lower standard based on the economic situation. Not that it would hold up in court anyway.
Never understood how people get so wrapped around the axel with regards to things they can’t control. Live your life and stop playing the “what if” game. You’ll be happier for it. From a guy who’s retiring at 65.
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Old 07-20-2023 | 07:36 PM
  #490  
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How many of you have flown with 65+ pilots?
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