![US house panel votes in age [67]](/iconimages/major/us-house-panel-votes-age-67-a_ltr.gif)
US house panel votes in age [67]
07-21-2023 | 08:47 PM
#521
Orbis Non Sufficit
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 788
Likes: 10
Ah, yes, this:
The proposal, which is being pushed by a lawmaker whose goal appears to be granting favor to a family member, risks the U.S. airline industry economic recovery that you and other ALPA members worked so hard to achieve.
I would call that a major faux pas. Nehls is on the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. That statement likely got back to Nehls through his brother since his brother received that blast email.
Making an enemy on an important committee that your industry relies on doesn't seem very intelligent.
All of those amendments that you listed above (labeled NEHLS AMENDMENT by you) were by members of the T&I Committee. That's the process. Committee members propose amendments. Ambrosi knows that, or should know that. I can't believe that was allowed to be sent out with that statement. Unbelievable.
The proposal, which is being pushed by a lawmaker whose goal appears to be granting favor to a family member, risks the U.S. airline industry economic recovery that you and other ALPA members worked so hard to achieve.
I would call that a major faux pas. Nehls is on the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. That statement likely got back to Nehls through his brother since his brother received that blast email.
Making an enemy on an important committee that your industry relies on doesn't seem very intelligent.
All of those amendments that you listed above (labeled NEHLS AMENDMENT by you) were by members of the T&I Committee. That's the process. Committee members propose amendments. Ambrosi knows that, or should know that. I can't believe that was allowed to be sent out with that statement. Unbelievable.
And who cares what Nehls thinks. Lets just say he’s not the type of elected representative we can expect will do any favors whatsoever for organized labor. Quite the opposite, in fact. But the Houston bubbas will still vote for him.
07-21-2023 | 09:31 PM
#522
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,882
Likes: 680
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
I see. My comment was about something they could add to the bill to reasonably limit 67 to where the problem is, regionals. Not just what an airline would institute as policy. Agree completely DL or AA couldn't just fire everyone over 65 because they fly all over the world without legal relief.
with that said, if legacies offered DEC positions to 65 yo CAs at their regionals would that hold as a reasonable accommodation?
with that said, if legacies offered DEC positions to 65 yo CAs at their regionals would that hold as a reasonable accommodation?
Also there's almost no legal or regulatory distinction between regionals and majors, so it would come down to international ops.
What they might reasonably add is language that airlines are not required to pay 65+ pilots to not fly trips which their seniority holds, but they can't operate due to ICAO. Force them to bid stuff they can fly, or not get paid. I'm afraid too many CBAs would be vague on that today, and the elders would tend to take advantage of that. Of course there's always LTD too.
07-21-2023 | 09:42 PM
#523
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,882
Likes: 680
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
That could easily be spun in the opposite direction: age 67 will make airlines more "top heavy" which will increase costs, and there will be more pilots on company paid disability which also increases costs. Higher costs = higher prices. I haven't seen any published stats, but after last summer I doubt many mainline flights were cancelled due to pilot shortages. Sure there were crews that timed out and no ready reserves available but that's on scheduling not pilot shortages. I'll conjecture that the vast majority of flights (or services) cancelled are EAS routes which affect a very small population.
What "shortage"? I haven't heard of any of the airlines cite lack of pilots for cancellations since last summer, and last summer was mostly due to COVID backlogs. This pushing of "pilot shortages" at the majors is pure BS. Aircraft manufacturers can't keep up with demand, and ATC can't keep up with traffic. Delta regrets parking their 777's and Kirby can't find enough WB's. Mainline pilot staffing is not limiting factor right now.
ALPA really needs to hit the media circuit and dispel this false narrative.
What "shortage"? I haven't heard of any of the airlines cite lack of pilots for cancellations since last summer, and last summer was mostly due to COVID backlogs. This pushing of "pilot shortages" at the majors is pure BS. Aircraft manufacturers can't keep up with demand, and ATC can't keep up with traffic. Delta regrets parking their 777's and Kirby can't find enough WB's. Mainline pilot staffing is not limiting factor right now.
ALPA really needs to hit the media circuit and dispel this false narrative.
But the voters losing air service really only care about regionals, which have a very real pilot shortage with numerous parked planes and cancellations of entire city pairs.
The complexities of how this will play out at the top of legacy seniority lists is way beyond most voters... "Too many retirements? Let them retire later"
I can only assume ALPA's narrative is aimed at convincing member pilots to email their reps. It sure as hell won't appeal to the average voter. They basically made an unfounded accusation of corruption against a congressman, not a great look (unless they have documentary proof).
07-22-2023 | 07:07 AM
#524
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 1,364
Likes: 128
I can only assume ALPA's narrative is aimed at convincing member pilots to email their reps. It sure as hell won't appeal to the average voter. They basically made an unfounded accusation of corruption against a congressman, not a great look (unless they have documentary proof).
07-22-2023 | 07:48 AM
#525
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,882
Likes: 680
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
They don't have a clue. They just look at it like everybody can chose to work longer if they want to, or not. They don't understand that pilots under 65 WILL pay a price in seniority progression, compensation, and QOL but may not even be able to hold a medical when it's THEIR turn. Congress and voters don't get all the complexities.
Although I do think the net impact per capita will less than two years, even less than one year. You can make a spreadsheet, 2023 pre-67 retirement schedule, and then in two years make another one with actual retirements and tell me if I'm right.
Obviously a lot of the delta will be LTD, and I guess I'm not too worried about that. Sounds like mostly a management problem to me.
07-22-2023 | 07:55 AM
#526
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 1,364
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Those are minor side affects. I was furloughed last time and had to start over from zero financially. We are one year into a recovery and could be weeks from a recession yet they want to solve a problem that doesn’t exist and will probably screw a lot of people.
07-22-2023 | 08:24 AM
#527
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,882
Likes: 680
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
The job market has cooled from the red-hot craziness we saw post-covid but there are still plenty of jobs for those willing and able. You just might not be able to telecommute full time, and surreptitiously work two different jobs from home via zoom.
07-22-2023 | 09:57 AM
#528
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 1,364
Likes: 128
I don't believe in a near-term big recession, and neither does the financial industry. Maybe a little one, but retirements will keep marching on and I doubt many majors will stop hiring.
The job market has cooled from the red-hot craziness we saw post-covid but there are still plenty of jobs for those willing and able. You just might not be able to telecommute full time, and surreptitiously work two different jobs from home via zoom.
The job market has cooled from the red-hot craziness we saw post-covid but there are still plenty of jobs for those willing and able. You just might not be able to telecommute full time, and surreptitiously work two different jobs from home via zoom.
Retirements won’t keep marching on, they will freeze for 2-3 yrs depending on the language and if the 65+ are allowed to return hiring will stop if it hadn’t with just the age change. The best part is if and when the downturn comes which it always does we will be bribing these guys with early out packages to mitigate furloughs when they should have been retired anyway. The entire thing is completely ****ED. If furloughs are on the table the 65+ should be forced out without any package before a single furlough happens.
07-22-2023 | 10:42 AM
#529
On Reserve
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 109
Likes: 2
House of Representatives Adopt Nehls Amendmnt
https://nehls.house.gov/media/press-releases/us-house-representatives-adopts-nehls-amendment-raise-mandatory-retirement-age
This statement right here is why this is a done deal!
”Currently, commercial airline pilots are forced to retire at the age of 65 but can still fly corporate and charter jets beyond 65.”
This lawmaker has now opened the door for litigation in the future concerning ageism with this official statement. Whether your for or against doesn’t matter. It will be extremely difficult, if not, impossible to remove the 67 language.
This statement right here is why this is a done deal!
”Currently, commercial airline pilots are forced to retire at the age of 65 but can still fly corporate and charter jets beyond 65.”
This lawmaker has now opened the door for litigation in the future concerning ageism with this official statement. Whether your for or against doesn’t matter. It will be extremely difficult, if not, impossible to remove the 67 language.
07-22-2023 | 10:52 AM
#530
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 1,364
Likes: 128
https://nehls.house.gov/media/press-releases/us-house-representatives-adopts-nehls-amendment-raise-mandatory-retirement-age
This statement right here is why this is a done deal!
”Currently, commercial airline pilots are forced to retire at the age of 65 but can still fly corporate and charter jets beyond 65.”
This lawmaker has now opened the door for litigation in the future concerning ageism with this official statement. Whether your for or against doesn’t matter. It will be extremely difficult, if not, impossible to remove the 67 language.
This statement right here is why this is a done deal!
”Currently, commercial airline pilots are forced to retire at the age of 65 but can still fly corporate and charter jets beyond 65.”
This lawmaker has now opened the door for litigation in the future concerning ageism with this official statement. Whether your for or against doesn’t matter. It will be extremely difficult, if not, impossible to remove the 67 language.
They can go fly corporate then. Corp aviation is the Wild West. It is not public transportation. Let the owners decide how safe they want to be on the planes they fly on
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