Federal law prohibits age discrimination (a federal specifying 65 or 67 is by definition not discrimination, since it's the law).

Such a prohibition, clearly and by long precedent, requires reasonable accommodation.

Accomodation would obviously include allowing them to bid a domestic only fleet. It would also include allowing them to bid a mostly domestic fleet and then bid-avoid international.

Now if their seniority can't hold any of that, then it might complicated... is the airline obligated to honor their bid and pay them to not fly? Can the airline park them without pay at all if they can't bid a domestic fleet? Can the airline drop no pay any international trips they do bid for? That depends mostly on CBA interpretation I suspect, and CBA's weren't written to account for this so I suspect various interpretations and lawsuits.

This is why congress *should* add some specific language, but of course they don't listen to me and if the ship hasn't already sailed, the mooring lines are off now.

But I'm confident that "I'm a global airline so I'm going to fire all 65+" will not hold up in court given existing laws and precedent.


I assume the battle line will be drawn here...

Airlines: Bid what you can hold, and we'll pay you to fly trips you can legally fly. We'll drop the rest, and cancel your benefits if your credit is too low.

Boomers: Per the CBA, I want to bid anything I can hold, and then get paid if the airline displaces me.

 

I see. My comment was about something they could add to the bill to reasonably limit 67 to where the problem is, regionals. Not just what an airline would institute as policy. Agree completely DL or AA couldn't just fire everyone over 65 because they fly all over the world without legal relief.

with that said, if legacies offered DEC positions to 65 yo CAs at their regionals would that hold as a reasonable accommodation?

 

Symbian's been at NK for quite a while. He's not at a legacy.

 

Started overseas, commuted from the us overseas from 1998, first us job was corporate in 2005. Made 99K in 08, and got downgraded. ULCC since 13.

 

Yeah, don't think I would still be with #1 if I had stayed ACMI. We already postponed kids 5 years, so I still have young ones in the house...

 

Ace, how do you think that a pilot age extension to help alleviate the shortage plays with the general (as in voting) public?
Even if you make a cronyism charge against him, it's more likely to net Nehls votes than lose votes. You need to get out of your bubble.

The introduction of bills in the 117th Congress to raise pilot retirement age was to lay the groundwork to add this as an amendment to the 2023 FAA Reauthorization Act. I realize most don't follow how the sausage is made in DC, but this is normal inside the beltway stuff. The current shortage of qualified airline pilots all but assured that it would be attached to the Reauthorization Bill.

I'm still waiting to read Sen Duckworth's Experienced Pilots Save Lives Act which will almost certainly be attached to the Senate's version of the FAA Reauthorization Act when it leaves the Aviation, Safety, Operations, and Innovation Subcommittee which is chaired by Duckworth. She has stated that it will extend pilot retirement age to 67 but slightly raise ATP minimums - still waiting to see that, but she'll need to make some concessions to Sinema who is the swing vote on the subcommittee.

 

That could easily be spun in the opposite direction: age 67 will make airlines more "top heavy" which will increase costs, and there will be more pilots on company paid disability which also increases costs. Higher costs = higher prices. I haven't seen any published stats, but after last summer I doubt many mainline flights were cancelled due to pilot shortages. Sure there were crews that timed out and no ready reserves available but that's on scheduling not pilot shortages. I'll conjecture that the vast majority of flights (or services) cancelled are EAS routes which affect a very small population.

What "shortage"? I haven't heard of any of the airlines cite lack of pilots for cancellations since last summer, and last summer was mostly due to COVID backlogs. This pushing of "pilot shortages" at the majors is pure BS. Aircraft manufacturers can't keep up with demand, and ATC can't keep up with traffic. Delta regrets parking their 777's and Kirby can't find enough WB's. Mainline pilot staffing is not limiting factor right now.

ALPA really needs to hit the media circuit and dispel this false narrative.

 

pilot shortages are absolutely real. There’s a reason legacies are hiring 23yo FOs with 1900TT and zero PIC.

 

OK, I'm done. Not possible to have a serious conversation with someone so deep in denial of the current state of affairs of the industry.

Googling 'pilot shortage' brings up a ton of pages of articles on the subject.

 

I’ve worked on the Hill as well (probably similar pedigrees). Politically, there’s no reason NOT to increase the age to 67. I believe that’s what we saw with the House vote. Politicians want to show their constituents that they are solving problems.

All the bloviating in the world from pilots wont change Washington politics.

You get it, I get it. Unfortunately, Ace don’t get it.