SWACapt

Read my posts I always state SWA is the exception to the rule in regards to LCC pay (check my posts on other subjects) SWA is a great airline! I wish all the LCC's could be like SWA (so do they!) because low salaries would'nt be an issue. I agree, the problems we face isn't because of pilots accepting low salaries..we all know there are a myriad of causes, I was just addressing part of the pay issue. I personally have nothing against a JetBlue or AirTran, its just when a pilot accepts $112/hr as max Capt pay It drags us all down, wouldn't you agree?
Take Care,

 

SkyHigh,

I don't know how old you are, but keep your chin up!! You definately have a defeatists attitude. UPS was started in 1988 (The airline portion) and it was full of all the casualties from braniff, Eastern, Lorenzo's CAL and every half-ass freight outfit out there, alot of those guys were in their early to late 40's and some older, I'm sure at that juncture in their lives they all felt they were handed a bad deck, but a few years later life didn't seem so bad! There was a guy in my reserve squadron we called "Chapter 55" because from 1981 to 1989 He worked for 5 airlines that went ch11. By 1993 He was doing great at American! Its not about the halves and halve nots, its about You! Hell I wish I could start my own business, I envy guys who can chart their own course in life and don't need to rely on unions or Managements good graces to get ahead. Don't fall into that defeatists mind-set that somehow through "connections" or "money" others move ahead while regular guys get screwed....Not to inject politics into this, but that is the attitude of the Democrats, essentially "we're never going to make it! because the tables are rigged against us, so lets screw the people who are doing well" UPS hires alot of older pilots (mid 40's and up!) Scabbing is not an option!
Dude You live life once! so don't sit around feeling like its over! I know f-16 pilots who were turned down at United, Hell my crashpad buddy flew F-14's and He flunked the dumb Frasca sim they had! He didn't give up!
To quote a great American,
"Did we give up after the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"
"Bluto"
As far as the whole superstar crap, I went to my interview and had them cracking up about subjects that had nothing to do with aviation, One guy said He'd like to fly with me cause I made him laugh! I got the job! Its not always about hours etc...There are plenty "Steve Canyon" F-15 pilots out there who are total dicks and HR folks see through them, and there are plenty of 2000 hour Caravan drivers who are great guys, you'd want to share a cockpit with on a 8 day trip, and HR folks sence that as well

 

Ditto Vito! The negative attitude is usually self fulfilling. Who would want to fly with a guy that was always down. There is opportunity everywhere...."Carpus Deum" There are a few 'haves' that were lucky, but most earned it through perserverence. Skyhigh, if you don't turn away from your attitude of surrender....we'll have to start calling you SkyFrance.

 

So is National Airlines still around? Did it make a difference how much they were paying their pilots, or did they just have a flawed business plan?

 

Have you seen JetBlue's pay on the 190? (it's the size of a small 737 or DC-9)So far their plan seems to be working and they don't have a problem to getting pilots. I don't think we have seen the bottom.

 

Gentilemen,

Thank you for the uplifting messages. I do have a positive attitude but also a realistic one. It will take a miracle start up like UPS to save my career. A lot of my enthusiasm comes from watching my peer group and these days most are selling oranges by the side of the road. One of my peers (ex TWA) does the laundry at my parents retirement community. It isn't all that grim but there are an awful lot of unemployed or underemployed pilots out there. Currently I am working construction and several of the sub-contractors or their employees are ex-airline or ex-military. Next year I turn 40. I can't jump at the next FO Learjet position or get in line again at the regionals again. I have a growing family to feed who need money and are not so excited about resurrecting the airline lifestyle for chump change.

That is why I would jump at the chance to fly a 737 for an LCC. I think there are a few thousand out there who would do the same. The first generation of pilots at UPS were not making the big bucks. I would bet that they were hungry refugees like myself. To me it is a question of the haves vs the have nots and there are a lot more of the have nots.

Many here have made some very negative statements towards scabs and I can understand your anger, but you have to see it from the other side as well.

Duffrick,

National Airlines went out of business three years ago. The business plan was alright but few start ups could survive 911. National Airlines base pay for a 757-200 Capt was 55K and 35K for an FO. On the first day of ground school the founder of the company would come it and give a speach on how we would never make more than 100k while working for the company. Most of the hiring took place during the boom times of the late 90's and there were still qualified applicants lined up around the block. My guess is that half of the pilots have still not found another flying job.


SKyHigh

 

Just to clarify, you see nothing wrong with crossing a pilot union's picket line to fly struck work? Additionally, you would jump at the opportunity to do so?

 

watch,

that's exactly what i read...unfortunate.

-LA

 

Watch, LA,

I definately would work for a competing LCC. As for crossing a picket line it would depend upon the situation. Do you consider the new mechanics at NWA as Scabs?

Unions have never done me any favors. I feel that they are hurting the industry and country. My point in that statement is that there are a few thousand pilots out there who probably would cross a picket line. I wouldn't be too eager to strike in this market if I were you.

SkyHigh

 

Skyhigh,

I don't have a problem with anyone working for a living - you and I can both work for the LCC. I'll gladly work as long as I'm not crossing any lines / undermining myself/others in the profession by weakening the collective bargaining process...Thats the key - by crossing a line you undermine not only the pilots on strike but yourself...Your power to collectively organize, act for the betterment of the profession and those for whom it is a vocation/avocation is eroded...

...My problem is with people who sell themselves short , undermine their brothers/themselves, and their profession just to cut a few years off the path...There is a fine line between leaning forward and bending over...

-LA


"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." --Thomas Jefferson