dogpilot

The argument that anyone can do the pilot bit, can be made with any job out there using your logic. Anyone can learn the math of rocket science, it has been done. Anyone can become a doctor, there are millions of them. So can anyone become a pilot, perhaps, but how knowledgeable will they be and how safe? There are millions of lawsuits filed against doctors for malpractice, not doing their job. A pilot miscalculates something at the wrong time it can mean death to hundreds. Pilots are underpaid and only get their kudos when they pull off the miraculous publicized save. I had a ton of respect for pilots before I touched the controls of any aircraft and it has quadrupled ever since. So many factors to deal with at once sometimes, think about what you are saying, would you want just anybody at the controls when something fails? Making well informed decisions and saving the aircraft and passengers is not an everyone job, just like not everyone should perform open heart surgery, especially mine should I ever need it!

Vito

ChrisH

I note a tinge of jelousy in your posts..I ask, Why shouldn't a pilot make more than a doctor? If the greatest brain surgeon in the world has a bad day, one human may die, Yet if a pilot has a bad day hundreds can easily die. So who has more responsibility?? Maybe the brain surgeon may be worth more when he's operating on a patient as the OR is spinning and being tossed around during High winds.
Also I don't care what the average Cop/nurse/accountant salaries are. We all know that cops, firemen, teachers and even US presidents are paid in the public sector, and thus salaries are low compared to what they are worth..I can easily make the same claim for that Navy Pilot doing a job that maybe .000001% of the population can do, and being paid $18,000 a year...or whatever a 2nd Lt or Ensign makes nowadays!
Pilots should be at or near the top of all wage-earners due to the education/apprentiship and complexity of the job...I challenge you to name another job where so many lives are entrusted to a person. Are You a Pilot? Just curious, You seem to have a simplistic view of the profession?
Take Care,
Vito

OldAg84

A 2-3 year 0-2, Lt.J.G. or 1st Lt., without dependants, makes about $58,000/year including aviation incentive "flight" pay. This also includes $6,840 in housing pay which would not be paid if said officer is in military housing.

That's not that bad starting out. Of course the lifestyle can be rough with deployments etc.

preludespeeder

vito,

to answer your question with a bit of sarcasim what should the president be paid if you were to base pay with the lives you control. that dirty poltician could kill all of us with one command, so should he be paid millions no i think not, pay is usually based upon years of school and what that job is worth to the person paying for it. a person will pay 100k to someone for working on their brain but no person will pay enough for an airline ticket to bum ******* egypt. remeber who pays your paycheck.

Vito

Preludespeeder,

I see your point especially how the cost of an airline ticket equates eventually to pilot pay. Personally I won't put my family on a airline that pays their pilots what I consider sub-standard pay. The way I figure, I wouldn't want a pilot up front flying for $60,000 a year at brand X when most other pilots at brands Y,Z are making $200,000 a year. I have to ask myself why is this guy settling for such low wages? Of course all the carnage concerning pilot salaries makes this line of reasoning moot, but I still know the airlines who pay their pilots cr#p and I won't fly them or recommend them.

duffrick

Point 1: Many realtors make $300,000+/year, just as many sales reps make $300.000+/year. Is that justified? Of course I forgot to mention all the sports stars who make millions every year for doing what excatly? I understand your logic Skyhigh, but don't think for a minute there aren't thousands upon thousands of fresh baked MBA's out there willing to do the job of an executive any day of the week. The question is could they? The answer is yes. If given the same time in experience a regional pilot gets before he moves on to a major, a rookie MBA could easily do what a CEO does, so why aren't the CEO pay rates coming down then? They are going up last time I checked. Maybe they have a little more self respect. Don't tell me there aren't enough applicants for open CEO jobs.

Point 2: An airline pilot is not getting paid for his/her stick and rudder skills since just about anybody can learn the actual skill of flying an airplane. An airline pilot is getting paid - or at least should be - for his/her descision making skills. When you look at accident statistics for airline pilots, the percentage of accidents from pilots who have less than 2,500 hours exceed the other the more experienced group of pilots by a factor of 10. There is a reason regionals have a requirement of at least 3,000 hrs total time before moving in to the left seat. The insurance companies won't settle for anything less! For all of you who went to work for the crap paying airlines you did it for a reason right? That reason being you'll build some time and then move on to the majors right? Now that dream is shot and you'll be working for crap wages forever, unless you have the intestinal fortitude to improve the working conditions at the airline you are at. Good luck, the rest of us are counting on you growing some nads so our managements can't use you as an example of what the rest of us should get paid.

Point 3: For a long, long time there has been thousands of pilots applying for the jobs available without pilot pay having to be cut. How many dreamers are hoping for a career as a football/baseball/basketball player? The guys who make it to the big leagues aren't getting paid the big bucks for a lack of qualified applicants for the available jobs. I could probably line up a thousand qualified guys who would work for nothing for every pro sports athlete's job out there. What is my point here? It is not the number of qualified applicants for the job that determines how much a pilot should get paid but rather what an airline manager feels you should get paid and your ability to resist those managers' wishes. Unfortunately the airline managers are sitting on all the strong cards now but the tide will turn. Most people don't get into the pilot profession because of the money, but that doesn't mean we want get paid s--t for "living the dream" either. More and more 18-year olds are going to say "no thanks" to flying for a living and that will impact military flying as well as civilian flying in a big way in the future. Why bother? Get an MBA or a law degree and fly for fun on the weekends, that is what will happen.

ERJ135

hey, so if there is a lack of pilot applicants in the future wouldn't that drive up pilot salaries again and force higher fares on customers. Sounds like a plan!!

ChrisH

Vito,

My argument is not about me, or my opinion. I support 100% if a pilot makes more than a doctor. I do not think pilots are overpaid. As I mentioned, I was playing the 'devils advocate'. I am pointing out the view people outside of aviation have, specifically in other careers, such as the ones I listed, along with their salaries. A majority of the population has absolutely no knowledge of aviation, or being an airline pilot. When major airline pilots are making six figure salaries, the general population, working in these other fields, has a hard time understanding why someone can complain about that.

P.S., I am finishing college and working on my ratings. I am not an 'airline' pilot, yet. My view is probably simplistic, but again, none of what I said in this thread is 'my' opinion. I am just trying to base an argument on what other, outside of aviation, may think.

My opinion is that pilots highly trained, and very skilled professionals. They do a job that requires constant, and last minute decision making that can lead to the death of hundreds if they make a wrong choice. They go through a lot of training, and school, and perform a job that not 'everybody' could do. They deserve every penny the make, and more. But, I also do look at airline pilots, specifically at the major level, as being paid a good salary. Either way you look at it, $100K+ is a lot of money. Does this mean they shouldn't make more? No.

duffrick

Yes, that does sound great. The only problem is that I will be taking it up the kiester until my union can negotiate with our airline managements on an even playing field. But, what do I know; I am only an old stupid legacy carrier pilot who don't know anything about anything. At least that what all the LCC pilots are telling me. Much like all parents are old and stupid in their teenage kids' eyes. We are dinosaurs and we are obsolete. They have seen the light, they drank the koolaid and now they have infinte wisdom. So, the generation after us will work twice as much for half the pay and managements will make them feel that they are lucky to make that much. Now, that's progress!

CVG767A

Being paid what is right, or what is fair, or what you're worth, is beside the point. You are paid based on how much clout you have at the bargaining table. This has ebbed and flowed since deregulation, as has our standard of living.