SkyHigh

dckozak,

Well since you didn't get it I was JOKING. However others with the same disposition as yourself have blamed the lowering pilot wages on the fact that desperate pilots are accepting the positions. They suggest that we should "just say NO" and turn our backs on these embarrassing wage jobs. I was trying to make a joke.

My question to you is this: What makes you feel like you have any grounds to be commenting on the current state of the industry? If you are a MD-11 captain then I am guessing that the last time you had to look for a job was back in the early 80's . In my experience the last guy to ask anything about getting a job or for career advice is a senior captain at a major airline. You don't have any recent experience as a job hunter to base any opinions of value on. You probably have never sat in a crew position in an RJ, don't follow hiring trends at the regionals or commuters. Your opinions and statements are a nice blast from the past (circa 1978) but are completely out of touch with the current state of the industry. Yet here you are spouting these gems of union propaganda while ALPA and other unions are folding all over the place like a deck of cards. A simple union pep talk isn't going to fix this one. You might as well scream at the wall.

SkyHigh

SkyHigh

Sorry hifly,

Experience hasn't seemed to have an effect on safety once you pass a few hundred hours in type. There might even be more of a case for over experienced pilots causing accidents through complacency. The military trains and cuts pilots loose in some very complex aircraft with some very low times. Especially in these modern automated airliners there is even less of a case for experience. In fact I believe that the regionals are starting to pass over pilots with more experience since the low time pilots don't complain as much.

SkyHigh

hifly

SkyHigh,

I'm confused about your situation. Did you pursue a career in the airline industry? Are you still here? Have you left this industry for another? Please correct any misunderstanding I may have

Also, lets try not to respond so viciously. It is unproductive I think your reply has many valid points but it looses, rather than gains, affect when constructed aggressively. This is regarding your post towards dckozak, not myself. This is also regarding some of dckozak's and many others' posts.

hifly

I don't agree with all of this. I believe the reason a flood of incompetent pilots have not entered the flight deck is because of the training that is in place. This safegaurds, to a point, incompetence. I don't believe that automation takes away the need for experience. I also don't believe that logged flight time eliminates incompetence.

SkyHigh

Hifly,

Everyone should have a "plan B" or "exit strategy" in this career. I have sat next to to many broke and alone guys nearing 60 who just couldn't let go in time to save what was left of their lives. Sure it is good to try but there simply isn't enough room for everyone. Persistence does pay, but to what cost? As I have mentioned before this career can demand a very high price and without any promise of a return. There must be other things in your life that you value more than flying. It is very important to keep those perspectives in mind. Blind enthusiasm can be a path to success or a recipe for ruin. In response to your statement “Failure is not an option.” prudence and an interest in self preservation dictates that it shouldn't be eliminated as an option. However, I refer to it as cutting your losses before it is too late.


SkyHigh

SkyHigh

Hifly,

Just you wait till its your turn at the regionals. The airlines harbor incompetence. The entire system is established to accommodate the lowest common denominator. People who shouldn't have drivers licenses are crossing the sky's everyday thanks to a well developed system of procedures, standardization, automation and from a whole lot of help from people on the ground. You'll just have to find out for yourself.

SKyHigh

hifly

I would agree with you. I would, however, like to ammend my statement. The current state of the industry does not present failure as an option to me in my specific situation. There, , I think that is better. Thank you for a constructive post and seemingly sound advice.

dckozak

Well it did cross my mind that you could be joking, but with you I'm never sure...... I think I did a good job of covering my bets with the way I responded.


Well your right about one thing; Talking union on the Jet Blue thread is like talking to a wall, only the wall might learn something.

Early 80's I don't even want to go there! I was hired in 1987. In 78 I was killing Cessna's teaching, the few, the willing, the rich how to scare themselves and their instructor while avoiding Chem 211.
Regarding unions and ALPA in particular, who else is going to stop the fall of wages and benefits in the airline industry, Jet Blue?? please!! Those guy's are sooo out of it. They probably think they make what they do because they have a good rapport with their CEO. Hey they're happy, as long as the upgrades come thick and fast, they will be. The senior ones are starting to get it, but as long as junior guy's see 3 year upgrades, there lost to understanding the advantages of operating under a real legally binding contract. Time will tell. This is a cyclical industry going through one of its more trying times. ALPA carreirs, along with AA, are taking it in the shorts right now. But sometimes you have to fall back to move forward. Pay cuts suck, I'm glad (and lucky) i don't have to face that threat, yet. You have to be in the game to fight another day. If DAL, UAL, NWA and AA didn't take the pay cuts, the chances are some of them would fold. Pilots might be greedy (who isn't??) but they'er smart enough to realise half a loaf is better than no loaf. Only time will tell if this is the beginning of a decline in the airline profession (as you summize) or just a temporary down turn (as I hope). We'll can only do our part to keep the ship from sinking, if it does, head for the life boats (or in your case Home Depot)!

SkyHigh

Hifly,

Please don't take my direct style as hostile. I feel a friendship to everyone here. You especially seem like a very likeable person.

In answer to your question I worked for over 17 years as a pilot. I worked as a bush pilot, charter/corporate/medevac pilot then for a regional and National Airlines as a 757 FO before the company folded. I started training as a 14 year old and went on to stupidly get a four year degree in aviation (and business). I have chosen to sit out since I have a wife and four sons and there are few flying jobs that pay well enough to risk their happiness anymore. In addition I don't have the same opinions about the future of aviation. Once my kids are a bit older and if I am able to find a solid financial footing I hopefully will return.

SkyHigh

hifly

These thing help us all, not just incompetent pilots. Incompetency exists in any industry and I'm sure that you are correct to say that it exists in the airline industry. However, training regulations keep incompetency to a manageable level that has not yet caused airplanes to rain anymore today than was so fifty or a hundred years ago. I'm sure we all would have had a tough time at the stick in the days of Antoine de Saint-Exupery, without procedures, standardization, and automation.