hifly

Thanks and the same too you. Sounds to me like you have priorities and there's nobody in the world who can discredit you for that.

Ranger

You're right where you belong. Please stay there.

SkyHigh

Thanks, I will stay here untill the next LCC cargo outfit starts up.

SkyHigh

CruiseFL310

skyhigh

after reading through various threads on this message board including this one i get an impression about you.

it sounds as though you flew some bush flying in alaska for some time then flew some charter and got on with horizon. after building some time with horizon you got on with national a new startup lcc flying 757s. when national went under you were stuck in a position with mostly sic time which is worthless and had no other option but to start over again at somewhere like horizon.

you took a risk by going to national that did not pay off. at that time the thought was that national may become another southwest or jetblue lcc - that being a successful airline.

hindsight is always 20-20 but it sounds like if you had stayed with horizon you may be in a position to be getting on with someone like southwest or ups or fedex. you may even already be on with them even as a captain at this point with southwest or fedex as there upgrades are not incredibly long.

my curious question is whether if the latter were the case you would still have the opinions you currently express. you implied that dckozaks opinions and views might be skewed and thus biased because of the fact he hasnt looked for a job since the 1980s. could it also be the case that your views are biased due to the unfortunate situations you found yourself in? maybe your opinions would be different if you were in dckozaks place?

dckozak

Why wait? There are several LCC's cargo companies, just none that are vertically intergated. If you think another company is going to mussle in on UPS and FDX, just look how much trouble DHL is having making its place in the US market. It's not as easy as buying a couple jets, hire some (pretty? ) FA's and start flying to Florida.
You could join the dark side, there is pleny of advise on this forum to working at FDX or UPS. It' not too late, or do we pay too much for you to feel comfortable??

ERJ135

Where and when did national start flying??

HSLD

National Airlines was born in St. Petersburg, Florida, in 1934 with the award of a 142-mile mail route between St. Petersburg and Daytona Beach, via Tampa, Lakeland and Orlando.

Service over the route was inaugurated on October 15, 1934. The fleet consisted of two second-hand Ryan aircraft. The airline had five employees, including the president and founder, G. T. Baker.

On July 8, 1937, the company was charted under the laws of the State of Florida as National Airlines, Inc. Routes were extended to Jacksonville and to Miami in that year and from Jacksonville to New Orleans in 1938. The company relocated it's general offices and principal base of operations in Jacksonville in 1939.

During World War II the carrier operated a portion of its fleet for the Air Transport Command and operated Air Corps contract schools for pilots, mechanics, radio operators and navigators.

In 1944 National became a major airline with the award of the New York-Florida route. On February 14, 1946, National inaugurated with DC-4s the first non-stop service between Miami and New York and the first four-engine commercial flights between the two cities.

National was certified into Havana, Cuba, in 1946 and was awarded a new route from Miami and Tampa to New Orleans in the same year. in mid-June 1946, National moved it's General Office to Miami and four years later moved it's engine overhaul base to Miami from Jacksonville. Havana service was suspended indefinitely in 1961, after the United States and Cuba broke off diplomatic relations.

In 1947 National received permission to inaugurate the so-called "Great Circle" route over water between Miami and New York, and reduced the flying time from five to four hours.

National pioneered in 1950 on the East Coast with low night coach and excursion fares to Florida, and with a Florida summer vacation program that contributed to creating a year-round operation for the state's tourist industry.

On January 1, 1952, National became free of subsidy and was placed on a mail service rate that made it self-sufficient over it's entire system.

In 1956 the National system was extended to Houston and to Boston.

National leased Boeing 707 jets to become the first domestic operator of jets in the United States and inaugurated jet service between New York and Miami on December 10, 1958.

On March 11,1961,National's system was expanded with the award of the Southern Transcontinental Route. The route extended the carrier from Houston to Los Angeles/ Long Beach and to San Diego, and from Houston to San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose via Las Vegas.

L. B. Maytag, who resigned as president of Frontier Airlines in March 1962, purchased controlling interest in National on April 26, 1962. Mr. Maytag was elected president and chief executive officer on that date. Dudley Swim, of Carmel, California, was elected chairman on September 12, 1962.

National in 1964 became the first exclusively jet-powered U. S. airline. In 1967 and 1968 the airline doubled it's jet fleet and phased out all prop-jet aircraft. On April 21, 1968, the last of the prop-jet electras was retired and National became all pure-jet with a fleet of DC-8s and B-727s.

Miami's first Boeing 747 service was inaugurated by National on October 2, 1970, with daily nonstop flights between Miami and New York. The second of the 352-passenger B-747s went into nonstop operation between Miami and Los Angeles on October 25, 1970. the 747s were sold in 1976.

After exhaustive study of second-generation wide-cabin jets, National selected McDonnell Douglas DC-10s as the finest, most economical and most adaptable to it;s route system. in 1969 the company ordered nine DC-10s, and in 1971 ordered two intercontinental versions of the DC-10. Four additional DC-10s were ordered in January 1973.

The first DC-10 service between New York and Miami, Palm Beach and Tampa was introduced by National on December 15, 1971. Service expanded as additional new jets joined the fleet.

The "good neighbor" DC-10 demonstrated that it has unusual customer appeal. This wide-cabin jet is comfortable, reliable, quiet and smoke-free.

Ground was broken in 1968 for a $45 million expansion program by the Dade County Port Authority for National Airlines at Miami International Airport. The project was completed in 1974.

A $17 million IBM electronic computer reservation system, called Res-A Vision, was completed and put into operation in 1970. The communications network enables National reservations agents throughout the carrier's system to exchange information immediately with two computers in the Miami headquarters. The system allows passengers to make reservations with a minimum of delay and error.

National became the third U. S. transatlantic passenger carrier on June 16, 1970, with the inauguration of daily nonstop round-trip service between Miami and London. This transatlantic route has proved appealing to passengers who wish to avoid the congested gateways and inclement weather of northern airports. Service with the intercontinental DC-10-30s was inaugurated on the route in the fall of 1973.

Dudley Swim, Chairman of the board, died in Carmel, California, on January 31, 1972. Mr. Maytag was elected chairman on February 11, 1972. E. F. Dolansky, formerly executive vice president, was appointed president and chief operating officer on December 7, 1976. Mr. Maytag retains the title of chairman and chief executive officer.

National's European horizons were further expanded June 22, 1977, when the airline inaugurated Miami-Paris nonstop service with DC-10-30 aircraft. National provides the only U. U. flag airline service to Paris from the South.

In May 1978 the airline introduced nonstop flights between Florida and Frankfurt and Amsterdam. New York- Amsterdam service was inaugurated in December 1978.

National also extended it's route system in 1979 by adding service between Miami and San Juan, and to Seattle from Houston and Los Angeles.

National's success was it's downfall, as all of it's aircraft and equipment was paid for. A bidding war began over the takeover of National's system. In 1980 Pan American World Airways acquired National Airlines and operated it's routes poorly. De-regulation was passed and suddenly Pan American was debt ridden. This was the beginning of an eleven year downslide.

ERJ135

Wow... thanks

SkyHigh

Thanks for your reply. You are right about taking the risk with National Airlines. I could have stayed with Horizon and been employed as a pilot still. I took the chance because I wanted to make it to me goal of Alaska Airlines. At the time Alaska Air wasn't hiring Horizon Guys. I noticed that others who left for jet operators like Gemini Vanguard or Evergreen were getting hired soon after shedding the stench of Horizon Air. Throughout my efforts as a pilot I have studied what make for a successful airline pilot. Every step has its risks. Probably the greatest risk of all is not taking one. It is common to become trapped by life at a regional. I also knew that the door was slowly closing and that I wasn't a young kid that could afford to waste a decade waiting for another chance to get noticed by a major. So, I took a chance with National Airlines that almost paid off. Had National Airlines made it my situation would be different right now. At the time National was hailed as the next great airline and JB wasn't considered to make it very far. Hindsight is 20/20.

You assume too much about hiring. It isn't automatic that every regional captain quickly gets hired at a major. In fact most don't. Had I stayed at Horizon I most likely would still be there working my a$$ off and earning my 48K per year. Out of my new hire class of 14 only one has gotten hired by a major. Most are still there grinding out a never ending string of four day trips getting older each day and becoming less eligible to be hired by anyone else. It takes a whole lot more than just the left seat of a turbine to get noticed. I had to take a chance or risk wasting my life away at Horizon.

Sure my views are slighted. If I had gotten on with Alaska Airlines 6 years ago at my first chance I probably would be thinking about other thinks like my 401K and where to take my next vacation. All my focus on hiring would dissipate and I would be on to other things like the union.

The biggest factor in my opinions is that I continue to follow and survey a large group of my peers and to this date only a very tiny small amount of pilot have ever made it to a major. If you study the statistics you will see that the odds of success are very small. Most of my surviving pilot friends are approaching 40 and still are struggling everyday and slowly realizing that they are getting bypassed by the younger generation. Man it was my highest dream to become a fat self absorbed ego maniac like most senior airline captains. It must be quite a feeling to think that you are the smartest person in the room just because you are disgustingly well paid to something that you enjoy. It didn't work out for me, but it wasn't because I didn't try.



SkyHigh

SkyHigh

Tha version of National Airlines that I wroked for started service in 1998 and ended in DEC of 2002. They were an all 757 airline and they had a rapid upgrade time till I got there. We had a 30 year old captain with 2500 hours total time.

SkyHigh