How much should a pilot be paid? Pt. II
01-16-2006, 08:26 PM
#211
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Thanks Chris H
Originally Posted by ChrisH
SkyHigh,
It is pretty clear that you have a good thing going for you right now in construction, and probably don't want to change that. I assume that you live in the NorthWest, since you flew for Horizon, and talk about your dream of flying for Alaska Airlines; as well as your bush flying days.
If given the chance to get on with Alaska right now, would you still chase that dream? Also ... I assume you have absolutely no desire to get on with another regional, but with SkyWest being one of the more decent regionals to fly for, and having a fairly quick upgrade, compared to many others, and bases in the NorthWest, have you considered something like that? Upgrades change quickly, but if they stay in the 2-3 year range with SkyWest, and you can build a couple years worth of that 1000 turbine pic, you could apply for and possibly be on with Alaska in the next 5-6 years, maybe sooner (depending on how much turbine pic you have now). Captain pay at SkyWest isn't all bad, and although things don't always work as planned, it could get you to where you want/wanted to be - at Alaska. It may take some sacrifice, and I saw where you want to wait for your sons to be older before getting back in the game, but it would be quicker than waiting 10 years and trying for another new LCC.
It is pretty clear that you have a good thing going for you right now in construction, and probably don't want to change that. I assume that you live in the NorthWest, since you flew for Horizon, and talk about your dream of flying for Alaska Airlines; as well as your bush flying days.
If given the chance to get on with Alaska right now, would you still chase that dream? Also ... I assume you have absolutely no desire to get on with another regional, but with SkyWest being one of the more decent regionals to fly for, and having a fairly quick upgrade, compared to many others, and bases in the NorthWest, have you considered something like that? Upgrades change quickly, but if they stay in the 2-3 year range with SkyWest, and you can build a couple years worth of that 1000 turbine pic, you could apply for and possibly be on with Alaska in the next 5-6 years, maybe sooner (depending on how much turbine pic you have now). Captain pay at SkyWest isn't all bad, and although things don't always work as planned, it could get you to where you want/wanted to be - at Alaska. It may take some sacrifice, and I saw where you want to wait for your sons to be older before getting back in the game, but it would be quicker than waiting 10 years and trying for another new LCC.
Thanks for the consideration. I too have had those thoughts many times however at my age I would be in my mid to upper 40's by the time I was able to be in a position to be competitive again. Experience also has taught me that airlines really don't care much for retreaded old men. They much prefer youth 121 captain superstars. In addition I have watched as minimums have shot rapidly upward over the last 7 years or so. I really doubt that I could catch up fast enough to have much of a chance. (Someone mentioned recently that SWA was going to 2000 hr 121 PIC as a minimum requirement.) Even If I was to be lucky enough to get hired by a major while in my upper 40's then I would have wasted the best years of my adult life on reserve, living at junior bases and working crummy lines only to upgrade just before age 60. I would be assured to have a miserably poor retirement and that my son's would be strangers to me since I would be gone for most of their upbringing. Sometimes dreams have to be put down. At this point in my life the relentless pursuit would have consequences that I cannot afford. My best hope now is for a spontaneous miracle, but most likely I will be here.
It makes for great sport to play autopsy on another's career failure. The fun is determining exactly where the malfunction is or the moment when the subject goes off course. Then we can pat ourselves on the back and gain a reassurance that certainly we are not that stupid or weak. I maintain that I put forth a worthy effort and when the smoke clears luck was the main factor and is so in most airline career successes or failures. I think that a more beneficial and interesting study exists in those who were successful. Not only can we learn from their success but we can measure what the price was. Sometimes the living human remains in a pilots uniform are much more gruesome than the supposed failures as evidenced by a few who post here. I'll bet that there is a trail of ex-wives, forgotten children and financial ruin in more than ones background and future. Choices...
SkyHigh
01-16-2006, 10:16 PM
#212
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 184
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
Dear Chris,
Thanks for the consideration. I too have had those thoughts many times however at my age I would be in my mid to upper 40's by the time I was able to be in a position to be competitive again. Experience also has taught me that airlines really don't care much for retreaded old men. They much prefer youth 121 captain superstars. In addition I have watched as minimums have shot rapidly upward over the last 7 years or so. I really doubt that I could catch up fast enough to have much of a chance. (Someone mentioned recently that SWA was going to 2000 hr 121 PIC as a minimum requirement.) Even If I was to be lucky enough to get hired by a major while in my upper 40's then I would have wasted the best years of my adult life on reserve, living at junior bases and working crummy lines only to upgrade just before age 60. I would be assured to have a miserably poor retirement and that my son's would be strangers to me since I would be gone for most of their upbringing. Sometimes dreams have to be put down. At this point in my life the relentless pursuit would have consequences that I cannot afford. My best hope now is for a spontaneous miracle, but most likely I will be here.
It makes for great sport to play autopsy on another's career failure. The fun is determining exactly where the malfunction is or the moment when the subject goes off course. Then we can pat ourselves on the back and gain a reassurance that certainly we are not that stupid or weak. I maintain that I put forth a worthy effort and when the smoke clears luck was the main factor and is so in most airline career successes or failures. I think that a more beneficial and interesting study exists in those who were successful. Not only can we learn from their success but we can measure what the price was. Sometimes the living human remains in a pilots uniform are much more gruesome than the supposed failures as evidenced by a few who post here. I'll bet that there is a trail of ex-wives, forgotten children and financial ruin in more than ones background and future. Choices...
SkyHigh
Thanks for the consideration. I too have had those thoughts many times however at my age I would be in my mid to upper 40's by the time I was able to be in a position to be competitive again. Experience also has taught me that airlines really don't care much for retreaded old men. They much prefer youth 121 captain superstars. In addition I have watched as minimums have shot rapidly upward over the last 7 years or so. I really doubt that I could catch up fast enough to have much of a chance. (Someone mentioned recently that SWA was going to 2000 hr 121 PIC as a minimum requirement.) Even If I was to be lucky enough to get hired by a major while in my upper 40's then I would have wasted the best years of my adult life on reserve, living at junior bases and working crummy lines only to upgrade just before age 60. I would be assured to have a miserably poor retirement and that my son's would be strangers to me since I would be gone for most of their upbringing. Sometimes dreams have to be put down. At this point in my life the relentless pursuit would have consequences that I cannot afford. My best hope now is for a spontaneous miracle, but most likely I will be here.
It makes for great sport to play autopsy on another's career failure. The fun is determining exactly where the malfunction is or the moment when the subject goes off course. Then we can pat ourselves on the back and gain a reassurance that certainly we are not that stupid or weak. I maintain that I put forth a worthy effort and when the smoke clears luck was the main factor and is so in most airline career successes or failures. I think that a more beneficial and interesting study exists in those who were successful. Not only can we learn from their success but we can measure what the price was. Sometimes the living human remains in a pilots uniform are much more gruesome than the supposed failures as evidenced by a few who post here. I'll bet that there is a trail of ex-wives, forgotten children and financial ruin in more than ones background and future. Choices...
SkyHigh
Do you still actively flight instruct? Maybe I should come up there and have you teach me through all of my ratings. You seem like someone who has a lot to teach.
I think it is easy to dissect one's career that hasn't gone as planned, and use that to form one's own path, by avoiding the things that may have proved to be the downfall in that person's career, rather than focus and dissect the successful ones, and following what they did. And, while there is luck involved in this career, and sometimes people are simply at the right place at the right time, overall, I believe the saying, "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity". This is why I think it is good to have people like you. Part of what preparation in this career involves is simply not flight experience and training, but also knowing the things that can go wrong, and how to avoid them, if possible.
01-17-2006, 12:13 AM
#213
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
"Sometimes the living human remains in a pilots uniform are much more gruesome than the supposed failures as evidenced by a few who post here. I'll bet that there is a trail of ex-wives, forgotten children and financial ruin in more than ones background and future"
Sometimes. In my case I put the career above wives and children. Financial ruin...hardly. I'd love to have kids but I don't seem to have any problem spending time with needy, neglected, other peoples kids, through volunteering at the Y....works for me.
I've made choices and sacrificed in some area's to be where I am. So have you. I most certainly don't come here and ***** about what could have/should have been. Maybe you shouldn't either....
Sometimes. In my case I put the career above wives and children. Financial ruin...hardly. I'd love to have kids but I don't seem to have any problem spending time with needy, neglected, other peoples kids, through volunteering at the Y....works for me.
I've made choices and sacrificed in some area's to be where I am. So have you. I most certainly don't come here and ***** about what could have/should have been. Maybe you shouldn't either....
01-17-2006, 04:40 AM
#214
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Complaint Box
Originally Posted by de727ups
"Sometimes the living human remains in a pilots uniform are much more gruesome than the supposed failures as evidenced by a few who post here. I'll bet that there is a trail of ex-wives, forgotten children and financial ruin in more than ones background and future"
Sometimes. In my case I put the career above wives and children. Financial ruin...hardly. I'd love to have kids but I don't seem to have any problem spending time with needy, neglected, other peoples kids, through volunteering at the Y....works for me.
I've made choices and sacrificed in some area's to be where I am. So have you. I most certainly don't come here and ***** about what could have/should have been. Maybe you shouldn't either....
Sometimes. In my case I put the career above wives and children. Financial ruin...hardly. I'd love to have kids but I don't seem to have any problem spending time with needy, neglected, other peoples kids, through volunteering at the Y....works for me.
I've made choices and sacrificed in some area's to be where I am. So have you. I most certainly don't come here and ***** about what could have/should have been. Maybe you shouldn't either....
I wouldn't call my complaints as "*****ing" I call it as I see it. Aviation isn't perfect and doesnt come without a high price. Most like to sweep that stuff under the carpet. Usually people who are defeated by the industry fade away and never tell their story. My mission here is in attempt to balance all the "flying is great" propaganda, because I know that it isn't great and it is getting less great all the time.
SkyHigh
01-17-2006, 04:53 AM
#215
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Thanks !
Originally Posted by ChrisH
The NorthWest seems like an area of the country that would have a pretty good number of charter and corporate jobs. With your flight experience, you could also look at one of those options. I believe in another thread you told me you looked into some part-time charter opportunities, but none really existed.
Do you still actively flight instruct? Maybe I should come up there and have you teach me through all of my ratings. You seem like someone who has a lot to teach.
I think it is easy to dissect one's career that hasn't gone as planned, and use that to form one's own path, by avoiding the things that may have proved to be the downfall in that person's career, rather than focus and dissect the successful ones, and following what they did. And, while there is luck involved in this career, and sometimes people are simply at the right place at the right time, overall, I believe the saying, "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity". This is why I think it is good to have people like you. Part of what preparation in this career involves is simply not flight experience and training, but also knowing the things that can go wrong, and how to avoid them, if possible.
Do you still actively flight instruct? Maybe I should come up there and have you teach me through all of my ratings. You seem like someone who has a lot to teach.
I think it is easy to dissect one's career that hasn't gone as planned, and use that to form one's own path, by avoiding the things that may have proved to be the downfall in that person's career, rather than focus and dissect the successful ones, and following what they did. And, while there is luck involved in this career, and sometimes people are simply at the right place at the right time, overall, I believe the saying, "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity". This is why I think it is good to have people like you. Part of what preparation in this career involves is simply not flight experience and training, but also knowing the things that can go wrong, and how to avoid them, if possible.
It is a wise practice to study others successes and failures but never say never when put to the test it is difficult to see that curve ball coming. A humble and respectful approach is best I think. "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity", true statement and sound advice. In life or aviation one must strive to place oneself in the path of luck in order for it to be a possibility.
I do hope to find a satisfying local flying gig and am actively trolling. It is difficult to mesh a highly scheduled family and business life with a totally flexible world like charter or corporate, but I am trying. It would be a blast to help you get through all the ratings. I even just renewed my CFI stuff.
Cheers,
SkyHigh
01-17-2006, 07:54 AM
#216
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
What you are refering to is a ongoing conversation that I have with Speeder.
My mission is to speak for the less attractive side to aviation and the airlines. Flying Magazine, AOPA and many other establishments work diligently to sell the upside. It is a bit one sided. Thank you for your post.
SkyHigh
My mission is to speak for the less attractive side to aviation and the airlines. Flying Magazine, AOPA and many other establishments work diligently to sell the upside. It is a bit one sided. Thank you for your post.
SkyHigh
Best of luck!
01-17-2006, 08:21 AM
#217
done, gone skiing
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Rocking chair
Posts: 1,601
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
......................I think that most here would sever a digit to be in ground school at UPS or FedEx....................I wouldn't be so smug if I were you.
SkyHigh
SkyHigh
I didn't think I was being smug. All good things come to an end someday. I'm just not rooting for someone elses breadbasket to be looted.
01-17-2006, 04:20 PM
#218
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Sorry
Originally Posted by Orca
Your mission is to make everyone feel as bad as you do. People always want to play down the Good and Great to make themselves feel better! Bus Driver-Airline pilot! You did not make it! That is too bad! Your falt or not! Now that your out.... Go get a hobbie! This is a sad statement of the mindset of the people in this country! Some how, we think, everything has to be fair! Lets just have a worker bee pay for everyone no matter what the job! Would that make ya feel better! Teach your children early! Life is not FAIR! It never has been and it never will be! Some people go out and work hard to get the the desired ends! Some are lucky enought to step right into it! Some never will get there!
Best of luck!
Best of luck!
Sorry to have hurt your feelings. I guess that you can't take a bit of non-sunny information and ideas. I am not trying to make people feel bad. I never said that things have to be fair. My opinions are mostly from the unattractive side of aviation. If you want to only be exposed to Mary poppins style of information then perhaps you should stick to Flying Magazine.
SkyHigh
01-17-2006, 04:25 PM
#219
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
I apologize
Originally Posted by dckozak
Hey I was trying to be helpful. There are a sh** load of FDX pilots in the SEA area, make friends, build them a house, go flying with them. OR get a part time job on the ramp, continue buiding houses, enter as a internal. If all else fails, see a shrink.
I didn't think I was being smug. All good things come to an end someday. I'm just not rooting for someone elses breadbasket to be looted.
I didn't think I was being smug. All good things come to an end someday. I'm just not rooting for someone elses breadbasket to be looted.
Thanks,
SkyHigh
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