How much should a pilot be paid? Pt. II
01-16-2006, 05:35 PM
#202
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Dark Side
Originally Posted by dckozak
Why wait? There are several LCC's cargo companies, just none that are vertically intergated. If you think another company is going to mussle in on UPS and FDX, just look how much trouble DHL is having making its place in the US market. It's not as easy as buying a couple jets, hire some (pretty?
) FA's and start flying to Florida.
You could join the dark side, there is pleny of advise on this forum to working at FDX or UPS. It' not too late, or do we pay too much for you to feel comfortable??
) FA's and start flying to Florida. You could join the dark side, there is pleny of advise on this forum to working at FDX or UPS. It' not too late, or do we pay too much for you to feel comfortable??
I hope that you don't miss understand me. I think that most here would sever a digit to be in ground school at UPS or FedEx. I understand what you are saying about DHL however even SWA struggled for quite a while before they broke through and opened the flood gates. Capitalism is a wonderful and powerful thing. I wouldn't be so smug if I were you.
SkyHigh
Lot a work
01-16-2006, 06:17 PM
#204
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 184
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
Thanks for your reply. You are right about taking the risk with National Airlines. I could have stayed with Horizon and been employed as a pilot still. I took the chance because I wanted to make it to me goal of Alaska Airlines. At the time Alaska Air wasn't hiring Horizon Guys. I noticed that others who left for jet operators like Gemini Vanguard or Evergreen were getting hired soon after shedding the stench of Horizon Air. Throughout my efforts as a pilot I have studied what make for a successful airline pilot. Every step has its risks. Probably the greatest risk of all is not taking one. It is common to become trapped by life at a regional. I also knew that the door was slowly closing and that I wasn't a young kid that could afford to waste a decade waiting for another chance to get noticed by a major. So, I took a chance with National Airlines that almost paid off. Had National Airlines made it my situation would be different right now. At the time National was hailed as the next great airline and JB wasn't considered to make it very far. Hindsight is 20/20.
You assume too much about hiring. It isn't automatic that every regional captain quickly gets hired at a major. In fact most don't. Had I stayed at Horizon I most likely would still be there working my a$$ off and earning my 48K per year. Out of my new hire class of 14 only one has gotten hired by a major. Most are still there grinding out a never ending string of four day trips getting older each day and becoming less eligible to be hired by anyone else. It takes a whole lot more than just the left seat of a turbine to get noticed. I had to take a chance or risk wasting my life away at Horizon.
Sure my views are slighted. If I had gotten on with Alaska Airlines 6 years ago at my first chance I probably would be thinking about other thinks like my 401K and where to take my next vacation. All my focus on hiring would dissipate and I would be on to other things like the union.
The biggest factor in my opinions is that I continue to follow and survey a large group of my peers and to this date only a very tiny small amount of pilot have ever made it to a major. If you study the statistics you will see that the odds of success are very small. Most of my surviving pilot friends are approaching 40 and still are struggling everyday and slowly realizing that they are getting bypassed by the younger generation. Man it was my highest dream to become a fat self absorbed ego maniac like most senior airline captains. It must be quite a feeling to think that you are the smartest person in the room just because you are disgustingly well paid to something that you enjoy. It didn't work out for me, but it wasn't because I didn't try.
SkyHigh
You assume too much about hiring. It isn't automatic that every regional captain quickly gets hired at a major. In fact most don't. Had I stayed at Horizon I most likely would still be there working my a$$ off and earning my 48K per year. Out of my new hire class of 14 only one has gotten hired by a major. Most are still there grinding out a never ending string of four day trips getting older each day and becoming less eligible to be hired by anyone else. It takes a whole lot more than just the left seat of a turbine to get noticed. I had to take a chance or risk wasting my life away at Horizon.
Sure my views are slighted. If I had gotten on with Alaska Airlines 6 years ago at my first chance I probably would be thinking about other thinks like my 401K and where to take my next vacation. All my focus on hiring would dissipate and I would be on to other things like the union.
The biggest factor in my opinions is that I continue to follow and survey a large group of my peers and to this date only a very tiny small amount of pilot have ever made it to a major. If you study the statistics you will see that the odds of success are very small. Most of my surviving pilot friends are approaching 40 and still are struggling everyday and slowly realizing that they are getting bypassed by the younger generation. Man it was my highest dream to become a fat self absorbed ego maniac like most senior airline captains. It must be quite a feeling to think that you are the smartest person in the room just because you are disgustingly well paid to something that you enjoy. It didn't work out for me, but it wasn't because I didn't try.
SkyHigh
It is pretty clear that you have a good thing going for you right now in construction, and probably don't want to change that. I assume that you live in the NorthWest, since you flew for Horizon, and talk about your dream of flying for Alaska Airlines; as well as your bush flying days.
If given the chance to get on with Alaska right now, would you still chase that dream? Also ... I assume you have absolutely no desire to get on with another regional, but with SkyWest being one of the more decent regionals to fly for, and having a fairly quick upgrade, compared to many others, and bases in the NorthWest, have you considered something like that? Upgrades change quickly, but if they stay in the 2-3 year range with SkyWest, and you can build a couple years worth of that 1000 turbine pic, you could apply for and possibly be on with Alaska in the next 5-6 years, maybe sooner (depending on how much turbine pic you have now). Captain pay at SkyWest isn't all bad, and although things don't always work as planned, it could get you to where you want/wanted to be - at Alaska. It may take some sacrifice, and I saw where you want to wait for your sons to be older before getting back in the game, but it would be quicker than waiting 10 years and trying for another new LCC.
01-16-2006, 06:31 PM
#205
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
"Man it was my highest dream to become a fat self absorbed ego maniac like most senior airline captains."
Skyhigh. I too was screwed by a small 135 bad outfit giving a bad recommendation. Mine was Lake Mead Air in 1985ish. Cost me at least a year. Mine was also a desire to work for Alaska but never got an interview, in fact, Horizon turned me down.....twice.
But somehow I bounced back.
You made some choices and they back fired. Could happen to anyone. But to say "Man it was my highest dream to become a fat self absorbed ego maniac like most senior airline captains" is really rare and goes over the line. It's not like that and if your really think it is, I'm damn glad your out of the biz. We don't need people like that.
I'm wondering if you didn't get weeded out by the system? Same system all of us play in and have always played in.
By the way, what were you doing in 1989 and 1990 when UPS was hiring warm bodies?
It's all about choices....
Skyhigh. I too was screwed by a small 135 bad outfit giving a bad recommendation. Mine was Lake Mead Air in 1985ish. Cost me at least a year. Mine was also a desire to work for Alaska but never got an interview, in fact, Horizon turned me down.....twice.
But somehow I bounced back.
You made some choices and they back fired. Could happen to anyone. But to say "Man it was my highest dream to become a fat self absorbed ego maniac like most senior airline captains" is really rare and goes over the line. It's not like that and if your really think it is, I'm damn glad your out of the biz. We don't need people like that.
I'm wondering if you didn't get weeded out by the system? Same system all of us play in and have always played in.
By the way, what were you doing in 1989 and 1990 when UPS was hiring warm bodies?
It's all about choices....
01-16-2006, 07:32 PM
#206
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: MD-11/10 Captain
Posts: 533
Originally Posted by dckozak
Why wait? There are several LCC's cargo companies, just none that are vertically intergated. If you think another company is going to mussle in on UPS and FDX, just look how much trouble DHL is having making its place in the US market. It's not as easy as buying a couple jets, hire some (pretty? ) FA's and start flying to Florida.
You could join the dark side, there is pleny of advise on this forum to working at FDX or UPS. It' not too late, or do we pay too much for you to feel comfortable??
) FA's and start flying to Florida. You could join the dark side, there is pleny of advise on this forum to working at FDX or UPS. It' not too late, or do we pay too much for you to feel comfortable??
01-16-2006, 07:39 PM
#207
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: MD-11/10 Captain
Posts: 533
Originally Posted by de727ups
It's all about choices....
And I can still hit a nail and not bend it. Most of the time.
01-16-2006, 07:48 PM
#208
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by de727ups
"Man it was my highest dream to become a fat self absorbed ego maniac like most senior airline captains."
Skyhigh. I too was screwed by a small 135 bad outfit giving a bad recommendation. Mine was Lake Mead Air in 1985ish. Cost me at least a year. Mine was also a desire to work for Alaska but never got an interview, in fact, Horizon turned me down.....twice.
But somehow I bounced back.
I'm wondering if you didn't get weeded out by the system? Same system all of us play in and have always played in.
By the way, what were you doing in 1989 and 1990 when UPS was hiring warm bodies?
It's all about choices....
Skyhigh. I too was screwed by a small 135 bad outfit giving a bad recommendation. Mine was Lake Mead Air in 1985ish. Cost me at least a year. Mine was also a desire to work for Alaska but never got an interview, in fact, Horizon turned me down.....twice.
But somehow I bounced back.
I'm wondering if you didn't get weeded out by the system? Same system all of us play in and have always played in.
By the way, what were you doing in 1989 and 1990 when UPS was hiring warm bodies?
It's all about choices....
Last edited by Double Digit; 01-16-2006 at 07:55 PM.
01-16-2006, 07:52 PM
#209
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Gentilemen
Gentilemen,
I seem to forget how sensitive you all are. My statement "Man it was my highest dream to become a fat self absorbed ego maniac like most senior airline captains" was a JOKE. Sorry to offend. Perhaps I hit a nerve?
SkyHigh
I seem to forget how sensitive you all are. My statement "Man it was my highest dream to become a fat self absorbed ego maniac like most senior airline captains" was a JOKE. Sorry to offend. Perhaps I hit a nerve?
SkyHigh
01-16-2006, 07:57 PM
#210
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Originally Posted by de727ups
By the way, what were you doing in 1989 and 1990 when UPS was hiring warm bodies?
....
I was in still college in 1989 and 1990.
I did get weeded out by the system. Time, circumstance and my belief in a better life culled me from the herd. Some might call it self preservation others perhaps self respect. In any case I didn't make it.
SkyHigh
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