Punkpilot48

My only thought here is.....

Depending on what you fly at your airline you are putting 19 to 400 pax lives in yours and the other pilots hands. Shouldnt there be a "reward" factor there. I hear managment likes it when you dont break their airplanes or kill their customers.

ChrisH

When you think about it, what is the differene between a bus driver; such as a GreyHound Bus driver, and an airline pilot. Both do the same job; just one in the air, and one on the ground. Statistically, flying is much more safer than driving on the roads. Is the bus driver, and his passengers, because of this, at more risk than the pilot, and his passengers? Does this mean the bus driver should make more than the pilot? What about school bus drivers, with buses full of children? Many of these buses can hold as many passengers as a regional jet; and in some cases, more than the 50 seater regional jets, and certainly more than the turbo-props. Look at corporate pilots. They fly around business jets that hold anywhere from 6-12 people, at most; and many times, they don't have that many on board.


Point above; being an airline pilot is not a super-human job. It is not a job that only a select few can do. There are plenty of jobs that have as much, or more responsibility than being an airline pilot; and many of those careers pay less. Pilots need to get out of their heads this, "I am an airline pilot, worship me, how dare someone make more than me, how dare I be paid a wage equivelant to other career fields.", mentality. And, if you hate the job that much, and it pays so little, take your back-up degree/plan, that so many pilots recommend getting, and go do a different job. Why continue to do a job that does nothing but bring misery? Go out and get your real-estate license, since real-estate agents make so much. Go out and become a sales rep., since they make so much.

It truly sounds like many pilots went into aviation, not for the love of flying, and the job, but on the idea that they would be making $300K/year, and only working 10 days per month. When you find out that isn't going to happen, it then becomes not worth it, and pilots end up miserable. It is truly a sad thing, but brings to life the age old saying, "money doesn't buy happiness". Going into any field for money only leads to misery. And, ask anybody in most any career field, and I guarantee they will all say they are underpaid, and undervalued. Look at IBM. Very profitable company; just decided to scrap it's pension plan. What about those emplyees? The grass is not always greener.

Nothing that is happening in the airline industry now, is new. Pilots knew about the cyclical and unstable airline industry before they got in. I've taken advice from many on this board, and am considering careers in other aviation related fields, from ATC and the military, instead of the airlines, for this very reason. Unless you are on the brink of retirement, it is never too late to make a change. If you would be happier, and make more doing something else; do it. SkyHigh did, and he is happy and successful. No reason others should't follow.

de727ups

"When you think about it, what is the differene between a bus driver; such as a GreyHound Bus driver, and an airline pilot"

"I've taken advice from many on this board, and am considering careers in other aviation related fields...instead of the airlines"

Awesome. I'm very happy to hear that.

Punkpilot48

the difference is the equipment used. Last time I checked If a bus driver had a problem with his equipment he can pull over. Ask any pilot with an in air emergency why didnt you just pull over? Lets see their responce. Bottom line is statistics DO NOT represent risks. Besides how much does a bus cost? How much does a A300 cost?

Isnt it funny that man if you want to get paid more you shoulda tried a different carrer path than the airlines. But, If you come in and say, "man I just want to be an airline pilot and fly people and get the travel benifits Ill suffer through the increadably low pay at the begining, and thats ok that I wont be making whatever it was that airlinepilots used to be when i become a senior captain" well now you are the scum bringing the industry down and ruining life for everybody. I love double standards they always make me feel like Im making the right choice.

ChrisH

de727ups,

You should know what I mean by that statement. Both people do the same job, under different circumstances. Pilots argue that they should be paid so much because they have people's lives in their hands, etc. So do other people, in other fields. My point is, a bus driver can have as many passengers on board their bus, as does a regional pilot, and are operating this bus on busy roads, interstates, and highways that are considered, statistically, more dangerous than flying in an airplane. Does this mean the bus driver should make as much, or more than a pilot?

You are reading too much into that statement.

mike734

Also, an airplane operates at 500 MPH in 3 dimensions. A bus 50mph in 2D.

I can't believe I was baited in to answering such a stupid comparison.

ChrisH

As I said, my statement was not taken the correct way. My point was that people like to use the fact that pilots have lives in their hands to argue the fact that they should be paid more. My point is, so do bus drivers. Statistics or not, they both transport passengers from one place to another, and have lives of other's in their hands, and can be operating under dangerous conditions. Sure a pilots job has more risks, and a lot more judgement has to be used, and no, you cannot just pull a plane over, but in both cases, someone has other's lives in their hands; so, again, what if bus drivers made as much as pilots? Should they? The way some of you talk about lives being in a pilots hands, I assume you would support a bus driver making $100K/year. In fact, they make far less than that.

Some pilots even have the audacity to say they should make more than doctors, because they have more lives in their hands than a doctor will. There is a big difference between how a doctor has a life in their hand, and how a pilot has a life in their hand.

To your second paragraph. I am all for standing up for pilot pay. But if pilot pay is so miserable, why get into the profession, unless your reason is simply the love for flying? And, if your reason is the latter, why get into the profession, and then complain endlessly about pay? There is the option of choosing other career paths, and flying for fun. The point is; it is one's choice to become a pilot professionaly, and the problems with the airlines have existed for a very long time; it is not new. Every pilot who complains about pay on a constant basis, has the option, and still does, to get out.

ChrisH

You all are misunderstanding my bus driver vs. airplane pilot comparison. It has nothing to do with equipment operated, speeds, etc. It has to do with lives in one's hands. If a pilot argues their pay based on having people's lives in their hands, then what about bus drivers. All other things aside, Im focusing on 'lives in one's hands'.

I certainly understand the differences in flying an airplane and driving a bus, as well as the risks involved in each.

SWAcapt

================================================== ======

I think they allready do!

Adirondack, New York, and Pine Hill Trailways are looking for full-time and part-time bus drivers for routes throughout New York State.
Starting salary [full-time]: $36,000 to $40,000 per year
http://www.trailwaysny.com/html/english/about_jo.asp


The bus driver makes more than all Transtates FO's and about the same as a 4 year J41 Capt.
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...2005030582.htm

Disclaimer: Not picking on TSA, just picked a regional at random

ChrisH

HAHA. I was waiting for someone to say that they actually do.

Everyone,
Please understand where I am coming from. I am not trying to say that pilots are on the same level as bus drivers. I certainly understand the risks involved with flying an airplane, compared to driving a bus, and I certainly understand the differences. Comparing a bus driver, train engineer, or boat captain to an airline pilot, however, is a much closer comparison than comparing a pilot to a doctor, or real estate agent. It isn't that stupid of a comparison.

The only reason I compared the two, was because someone said they think pilot should be rewarded for the fact that they have lives in their hands, and for bringing in equipment undamaged, which management likes. My point was; other career fields can involve those same things; having lives in their hands, and operating equipment that management wants undamaged. That was supposed to be the extent of my comparison.

I am all for pilots making $300K/year, and working 10 days per month, don't get me wrong. I'd like to see all pilots come together and make sure pay does not slip further. BUT... I do think pilots, in particular, at the major level, make pretty good salaries, and if the job is truly that bad, or if the pay is truly that low; there are other options.

Sorry for the anger that I may have portrayed in my earlier posts. I am under stress, and angry about something completely different right now, which is a long story, and I took it out on this board. Good luck to all!