delay in upgrade times permananent?
12-25-2007, 04:20 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,575
Originally Posted by OscartheGrouch
CPT,
That attitude is pathetic! Who do you think pays for LTD fraud? I have a long time "friend" who tried what you suggest and fortunately for him he didn't fool anyone. I say fortunately because he had many people watching him and he would'nt have been able to "just cash the check." If your suggestion was not meant to imply fraud please accept my apology in advance. Otherwise, please explain what you were implying.
If you are able to get a "waiver or anything else" it is the right thing to do. Cashing the check and doing something on the side when a waiver is possible is FRAUD! I am amazed and frankly can't believe what we are teaching our children about what is right and wrong.
That attitude is pathetic! Who do you think pays for LTD fraud? I have a long time "friend" who tried what you suggest and fortunately for him he didn't fool anyone. I say fortunately because he had many people watching him and he would'nt have been able to "just cash the check." If your suggestion was not meant to imply fraud please accept my apology in advance. Otherwise, please explain what you were implying.
If you are able to get a "waiver or anything else" it is the right thing to do. Cashing the check and doing something on the side when a waiver is possible is FRAUD! I am amazed and frankly can't believe what we are teaching our children about what is right and wrong.
12-25-2007, 05:42 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 511
Originally Posted by CALPilotToo
The key to dealing with the age 65 issue is to mediacal out whenever you can. Take the LTD then do something on the side. Jump through whatever hoops they need you to but after that just enjoy the money while doing something else. Don't go out of way screaming for waivers or anything else. Just do what the Dr says and cash the freakin check each month. Let ALPA deal with it when this industry continues to go backwards.
12-25-2007, 05:43 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 511
Originally Posted by LivingInMEM
Considered alone, it will have the potential to slow hiring for up to a 5-yr period (other factors will have longer impacts). Think of it as a 5-gal bucket of water, if you continue to pour 1-gal/hour into a full bucket, 1-gal/hr will spill out. If you suddenly increase the capacity to 10-gal, the outflow is affected until the 10-gal point is reached, then the outflow will resume at 1-gal/hr again. It isn't an exact analogy since you are actually drawing pilots from the bucket and replacing them with new pilots, but you did stop the potential outflow for 5-yrs (although there will not be 100% takers).
Great Post!
12-26-2007, 04:35 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 463
Originally Posted by Rocco
You sound like a really great dude! I wish I could fly with someone like you.
12-26-2007, 04:37 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 463
Originally Posted by OscartheGrouch
CPT,
That attitude is pathetic! Who do you think pays for LTD fraud? I have a long time "friend" who tried what you suggest and fortunately for him he didn't fool anyone. I say fortunately because he had many people watching him and he would'nt have been able to "just cash the check." If your suggestion was not meant to imply fraud please accept my apology in advance. Otherwise, please explain what you were implying.
If you are able to get a "waiver or anything else" it is the right thing to do. Cashing the check and doing something on the side when a waiver is possible is FRAUD! I am amazed and frankly can't believe what we are teaching our children about what is right and wrong.
That attitude is pathetic! Who do you think pays for LTD fraud? I have a long time "friend" who tried what you suggest and fortunately for him he didn't fool anyone. I say fortunately because he had many people watching him and he would'nt have been able to "just cash the check." If your suggestion was not meant to imply fraud please accept my apology in advance. Otherwise, please explain what you were implying.
If you are able to get a "waiver or anything else" it is the right thing to do. Cashing the check and doing something on the side when a waiver is possible is FRAUD! I am amazed and frankly can't believe what we are teaching our children about what is right and wrong.
12-26-2007, 05:36 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B737/Capt
Posts: 998
Originally Posted by CALPilotToo
The key to dealing with the age 65 issue is to mediacal out whenever you can. Take the LTD then do something on the side. Jump through whatever hoops they need you to but after that just enjoy the money while doing something else. Don't go out of way screaming for waivers or anything else. Just do what the Dr says and cash the freakin check each month. Let ALPA deal with it when this industry continues to go backwards.
The "key" is to medical out "whenever" you can? I am just a former Marine and not the sharpest tool in the shed so please enlighten me as to what that statement meant. "Take" the LTD (vs. legitimately receive) and don't go "out of the way" screaming for waivers or "anything" else? Semantics aside, I feel your implications where less than above board. I have flown with some (thankfully there are not too many here at SWA) who have some sense of entitlement and frankly after listening to their rant I feel like pouring some fuel on myself and lighting a match (from Airplane). Statements such as "I am not leaving here with any sick leave because I have a military medical plan" and "I keep my sick leave balance at zero because I know our PMA (pilot mutual aid) will pitch in and get me through the six months till LTD kicks in" come to mind. There have been a few who have accomplished the task of getting on LTD I feel undeservedly and when their name comes up in a conversation everyone rolls their eyes because they were such crappy employees we are almost just glad to be rid of them. All I can say is someone who is commiting fraud deserves to be found out and utilmately be prosecuted.
Ultimately one must be able to live with themself when they make decisions that negatively impact others. The problem is our society has so distorted the difference between right and wrong that is far to easy for some to be comfortable with themselves when they are scam artists.
I am not the morality police but those that are dishonest will eventually get what they deserve regardless of whether they "think" they got away with something. Someone has to pay for dishonesty and fraud.
I will leave you with two stories that I feel make a statement regarding our discussion. First I flew with a captain when I was at Pan Am (the original) who had gotten a waiver for having a heart attack and I marveled at his energy and work ethic. I will say he formed a very positive impression on me. The second story involves a captain I got stuck with for a whole month. From the beginning he rubbed me wrong with his attitudes about everything from money to relationships. From child support, to taking from others, to cheating on taxes (very flagrant). Well he wouldn't be a poster boy for the change in the age 65 rule because he died about 5 months after retirement. I truly believe it was because of his poor work ethic and due to Karma. I will say I did not shed a tear (and I have compassion for almost everyone) and when his name comes up I feel it is necessary to make sure he is not described as a saint.
Last edited by OscartheGrouch; 12-26-2007 at 06:09 AM.
12-26-2007, 09:51 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 463
Originally Posted by OscartheGrouch
CPT,
The "key" is to medical out "whenever" you can? I am just a former Marine and not the sharpest tool in the shed so please enlighten me as to what that statement meant. "Take" the LTD (vs. legitimately receive) and don't go "out of the way" screaming for waivers or "anything" else? Semantics aside, I feel your implications where less than above board. I have flown with some (thankfully there are not too many here at SWA) who have some sense of entitlement and frankly after listening to their rant I feel like pouring some fuel on myself and lighting a match (from Airplane). Statements such as "I am not leaving here with any sick leave because I have a military medical plan" and "I keep my sick leave balance at zero because I know our PMA (pilot mutual aid) will pitch in and get me through the six months till LTD kicks in" come to mind. There have been a few who have accomplished the task of getting on LTD I feel undeservedly and when their name comes up in a conversation everyone rolls their eyes because they were such crappy employees we are almost just glad to be rid of them. All I can say is someone who is commiting fraud deserves to be found out and utilmately be prosecuted.
Ultimately one must be able to live with themself when they make decisions that negatively impact others. The problem is our society has so distorted the difference between right and wrong that is far to easy for some to be comfortable with themselves when they are scam artists.
I am not the morality police but those that are dishonest will eventually get what they deserve regardless of whether they "think" they got away with something. Someone has to pay for dishonesty and fraud.
The "key" is to medical out "whenever" you can? I am just a former Marine and not the sharpest tool in the shed so please enlighten me as to what that statement meant. "Take" the LTD (vs. legitimately receive) and don't go "out of the way" screaming for waivers or "anything" else? Semantics aside, I feel your implications where less than above board. I have flown with some (thankfully there are not too many here at SWA) who have some sense of entitlement and frankly after listening to their rant I feel like pouring some fuel on myself and lighting a match (from Airplane). Statements such as "I am not leaving here with any sick leave because I have a military medical plan" and "I keep my sick leave balance at zero because I know our PMA (pilot mutual aid) will pitch in and get me through the six months till LTD kicks in" come to mind. There have been a few who have accomplished the task of getting on LTD I feel undeservedly and when their name comes up in a conversation everyone rolls their eyes because they were such crappy employees we are almost just glad to be rid of them. All I can say is someone who is commiting fraud deserves to be found out and utilmately be prosecuted.
Ultimately one must be able to live with themself when they make decisions that negatively impact others. The problem is our society has so distorted the difference between right and wrong that is far to easy for some to be comfortable with themselves when they are scam artists.
I am not the morality police but those that are dishonest will eventually get what they deserve regardless of whether they "think" they got away with something. Someone has to pay for dishonesty and fraud.
12-26-2007, 09:54 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 463
Originally Posted by OscartheGrouch
I will say I did not shed a tear (and I have compassion for almost everyone) and when his name comes up I feel it is necessary to make sure he is not described as a saint.
12-26-2007, 03:11 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B737/Capt
Posts: 998
Originally Posted by CALPilotToo
Again, I didin't state anything involving fraud. Clearly you are one to judge. Be careful as that might actually require your soul to be judged one day. Get off your high horse.
I have flown with many who say things and then pretend that they didn't. Nice moon walking though. You still have not replied to the specifics of why I (and I apologize) hijacked the discussion. While I "relax" and get off my "high horse" I would suggest that you don't mention LTD again in any of your posts because I for one won't believe anything you have to say. The specific words you used and how you presented them would make me watch your "career progression" carefully.
Once again I am ending a discussion with someone who I wish had not shared his/her thoughts with me (and many others on this website). I will not be the one to ultimately judge anyone but if you or anyone else commits any type of fraud I will not (as I said) shed a tear if your scam ends in defeat.
12-26-2007, 08:01 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 463
Originally Posted by OscartheGrouch
CPT,
I have flown with many who say things and then pretend that they didn't. Nice moon walking though. You still have not replied to the specifics of why I (and I apologize) hijacked the discussion. While I "relax" and get off my "high horse" I would suggest that you don't mention LTD again in any of your posts because I for one won't believe anything you have to say. The specific words you used and how you presented them would make me watch your "career progression" carefully.
Once again I am ending a discussion with someone who I wish had not shared his/her thoughts with me (and many others on this website). I will not be the one to ultimately judge anyone but if you or anyone else commits any type of fraud I will not (as I said) shed a tear if your scam ends in defeat.
I have flown with many who say things and then pretend that they didn't. Nice moon walking though. You still have not replied to the specifics of why I (and I apologize) hijacked the discussion. While I "relax" and get off my "high horse" I would suggest that you don't mention LTD again in any of your posts because I for one won't believe anything you have to say. The specific words you used and how you presented them would make me watch your "career progression" carefully.
Once again I am ending a discussion with someone who I wish had not shared his/her thoughts with me (and many others on this website). I will not be the one to ultimately judge anyone but if you or anyone else commits any type of fraud I will not (as I said) shed a tear if your scam ends in defeat.
I'm not scamming anyone nor do I intend to. But if a Dr. took my medical I won't be the one begging for him to overlook something is all. I guess you feel that would be OK so long as you get to keep flying. Who's scamming who? And as far as you believing me or not, well I really don't care what you decide to do. I'm glad you love flying as much as you do. How many plaques and certificates do you have in your home office? Don't answer that...
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