CAL F/O Removed from flight
05-28-2009 | 03:16 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 0
From: DAL Pilot
I don't see anything in the uniform section specifically prohibiting it. If your Captain asks you to remove it, just remove it and put it back on at the end of your trip. He/she is your supervisor during that trip. Why would you risk your job over a stupid wrist band? Pick your battles. Then again, the Captain WAY over reacted, also.
05-28-2009 | 03:21 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 13,843
Likes: 1
From: FAA 'Flight Check'
Didn't see anything specifically prohibiting it but take a look for yourself.
Uniform Standards
The shirt must be buttoned, with tie in place at all times when in public
view.
Uniform coat should be appropriately buttoned when in public view.
Only authorized tie tack / pins may be worn.
The female uniform shirt / tie combinations will be the white ascot blouse
or the white female blouse with black floppy bow tie.
Long sleeve shirts may only be worn with the uniform coat.
Sweaters are optional and may only be worn under the uniform coat
when in view of the public. Sweaters must be plain black and be either a
long sleeve V-neck pullover or V-neck vest style. Sweaters embroidered
with the approved Continental logo are approved.
Black leather business dress shoes for males are defined as cap toe, low
quarter tie, or slip-on shoes, no tassels, and Wellington style boots. All
shoes must have a non-skid sole.
Approved all weather coats / overcoats may only be worn over the
uniform suit coat. Coat should be buttoned when in public view.
Approved Continental wings appropriate to your crew status will be worn
on the uniform suit coat over the left breast.
Approved Continental wings appropriate to your crew status will be worn
centered ½ inch above the left shirt pocket.
Trouser / pant / skirt material must be the same as the uniform coat when
worn in combination.
Baseball caps, sun visors, etc. may be worn in the flight deck only.
Flight crewmembers must have the approval of their Chief Pilot to
operate an aircraft in any attire other than the approved pilot uniform.
Pilots qualified as captain, but currently flying in another status may wear
captain epaulets, captain shirt and jacket wings, and captain jacket
stripes. The pilot may not wear the captain hat. A Check Airman
performing Check Airman duties in the right seat may continue to wear
the captains hat.
The standard crew luggage is a 20 to 24 inch black suitcase. A small
black tote and / or a plain black hanging garment bag (no shoulder strap)
can also be carried. Crew luggage shall be free of stickers. The wearing
of back packs is prohibited.
The uniform hat shall be worn whenever the uniform coat is worn.
The following items are Not Approved:
Worn, stained, or dirty uniform pieces.
Trousers / pants with cuffs.
Black casual shoes, tennis shoes, or cowboy boots.
Garment bags with shoulder straps.
Seasonal and geographical requirements:
The uniform coat and hat are required to be worn between October 15
and April 15 by pilots conducting the following operations:
− Domestic flights (including HNL)
− European (including TLV)
− South and Central America
− Caribbean
− Canada
− U.S. to/from Asia/Japan
During this period the uniform coat and hat is not required to be worn by
pilots conducting operations between HNL and GUM.
Male Grooming Standards
Hair must present a clean, neat and businesslike appearance. Hair will be
trimmed so as not to extend below the top of the shirt collar or below the
middle of the ear. Extreme styles and colors are not acceptable.
Sideburns will not extend below the middle of the ear and will be of an
even width. Sideburns will end with a clean shaven line.
Mustaches will be trimmed to reveal the entire upper lip line. They may
not extend more than a Ό inch beyond the corner of the mouth.
Beards and goatees are not allowed.
Earrings, facial and tongue studs are not allowed
Female Grooming Standards
Hair will be worn in a business-like and fashionable manner. Hair will
be styled or secured so as not to interfere with pilot duties in and around
the aircraft, and so the hat may be worn squarely upon the head. Extreme
styles and colors are not acceptable.
If makeup is worn, it must be worn to create a business-like appearance.
Lipstick and cosmetics with grease must not be worn due to the fact that
pure oxygen and grease-based cosmetics can cause combustion.
Uniform Standards
The shirt must be buttoned, with tie in place at all times when in public
view.
Uniform coat should be appropriately buttoned when in public view.
Only authorized tie tack / pins may be worn.
The female uniform shirt / tie combinations will be the white ascot blouse
or the white female blouse with black floppy bow tie.
Long sleeve shirts may only be worn with the uniform coat.
Sweaters are optional and may only be worn under the uniform coat
when in view of the public. Sweaters must be plain black and be either a
long sleeve V-neck pullover or V-neck vest style. Sweaters embroidered
with the approved Continental logo are approved.
Black leather business dress shoes for males are defined as cap toe, low
quarter tie, or slip-on shoes, no tassels, and Wellington style boots. All
shoes must have a non-skid sole.
Approved all weather coats / overcoats may only be worn over the
uniform suit coat. Coat should be buttoned when in public view.
Approved Continental wings appropriate to your crew status will be worn
on the uniform suit coat over the left breast.
Approved Continental wings appropriate to your crew status will be worn
centered ½ inch above the left shirt pocket.
Trouser / pant / skirt material must be the same as the uniform coat when
worn in combination.
Baseball caps, sun visors, etc. may be worn in the flight deck only.
Flight crewmembers must have the approval of their Chief Pilot to
operate an aircraft in any attire other than the approved pilot uniform.
Pilots qualified as captain, but currently flying in another status may wear
captain epaulets, captain shirt and jacket wings, and captain jacket
stripes. The pilot may not wear the captain hat. A Check Airman
performing Check Airman duties in the right seat may continue to wear
the captains hat.
The standard crew luggage is a 20 to 24 inch black suitcase. A small
black tote and / or a plain black hanging garment bag (no shoulder strap)
can also be carried. Crew luggage shall be free of stickers. The wearing
of back packs is prohibited.
The uniform hat shall be worn whenever the uniform coat is worn.
The following items are Not Approved:
Worn, stained, or dirty uniform pieces.
Trousers / pants with cuffs.
Black casual shoes, tennis shoes, or cowboy boots.
Garment bags with shoulder straps.
Seasonal and geographical requirements:
The uniform coat and hat are required to be worn between October 15
and April 15 by pilots conducting the following operations:
− Domestic flights (including HNL)
− European (including TLV)
− South and Central America
− Caribbean
− Canada
− U.S. to/from Asia/Japan
During this period the uniform coat and hat is not required to be worn by
pilots conducting operations between HNL and GUM.
Male Grooming Standards
Hair must present a clean, neat and businesslike appearance. Hair will be
trimmed so as not to extend below the top of the shirt collar or below the
middle of the ear. Extreme styles and colors are not acceptable.
Sideburns will not extend below the middle of the ear and will be of an
even width. Sideburns will end with a clean shaven line.
Mustaches will be trimmed to reveal the entire upper lip line. They may
not extend more than a Ό inch beyond the corner of the mouth.
Beards and goatees are not allowed.
Earrings, facial and tongue studs are not allowed
Female Grooming Standards
Hair will be worn in a business-like and fashionable manner. Hair will
be styled or secured so as not to interfere with pilot duties in and around
the aircraft, and so the hat may be worn squarely upon the head. Extreme
styles and colors are not acceptable.
If makeup is worn, it must be worn to create a business-like appearance.
Lipstick and cosmetics with grease must not be worn due to the fact that
pure oxygen and grease-based cosmetics can cause combustion.
If the CA considered her out of uniform - and presented such facts to whomever he called to complain - I suppose that he would be resting his argument on the highlight line above.
It will be interesting to see where this goes.
USMCFLYR
05-28-2009 | 03:31 PM
#13
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
I thought we were encouraged to wear "flair." I don't have any, but if anyone takes offense to military aircraft pins they are going to have a hard time finding a suitable crew member to fly with at my outfit.
05-28-2009 | 03:48 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 514
Likes: 0
From: 73 CA EWR
Bottom line is this Captain is going to pay one way or the other. First will be his departure from the safety committee second will be his denial of the jumpseat (I pray it is me who explains to him that he won't be jumpseating on my jumpseat, EVER) and third the realization that even the CPO office probably thinks he's a tool and last being informed the FO got pay protected.
05-28-2009 | 03:51 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 514
Likes: 0
From: 73 CA EWR
"In the military we have rules that dictate what we can and can not wear - even on liberty in some cases - as certainly when at work!"
I really hope I didn't suffer from such lack of perspective some 20 years ago.
I really hope I didn't suffer from such lack of perspective some 20 years ago.
05-28-2009 | 04:01 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 0
From: DAL Pilot
I'm not a huge wristband lover, either, but the Lance Armstrong Foundation is a great organization. His foundation has raised over 14 million dollars towards cancer research! Definitely a good thing! But I digress.... carry on!
05-28-2009 | 04:04 PM
#18
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,981
Likes: 17
From: 737 CAPT
It is time for him to be removed from the Safety Committee. He brings a bad name to the term "union" IMHO. We all have our opinions about what is going on, past and present. But we act like adults and do our job in a professional manner. If you don't like something I am doing and just can't seem to address it with me, then call Pro Stan. To go crying to the Chief Pilot over something that IS NOT safety related is pretty low.
In addition, if the company is going to cite uniform policy as the reason this FO was removed from the trip per CA's request, it had better enforce the policy consistently. I am no company man, but if the company is going to pull the FO over this they had better pull every sideburned long-haired hippie, faded-Dockers/jeans, cowboy-boot wearing slovenly excuse for pilots I see walking through the terminal on a daily basis. That being said, I am not advocating that in the least. It is about consistency. The company can't use the uniform policy as an excuse here if they don't actually enforce what is written..
The union should provide trip loss pay to this FO as was mentioned above.
In addition, if the company is going to cite uniform policy as the reason this FO was removed from the trip per CA's request, it had better enforce the policy consistently. I am no company man, but if the company is going to pull the FO over this they had better pull every sideburned long-haired hippie, faded-Dockers/jeans, cowboy-boot wearing slovenly excuse for pilots I see walking through the terminal on a daily basis. That being said, I am not advocating that in the least. It is about consistency. The company can't use the uniform policy as an excuse here if they don't actually enforce what is written..
The union should provide trip loss pay to this FO as was mentioned above.
05-28-2009 | 04:13 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,847
Likes: 10
I don't see anything in the uniform section specifically prohibiting it. If your Captain asks you to remove it, just remove it and put it back on at the end of your trip. He/she is your supervisor during that trip. Why would you risk your job over a stupid wrist band? Pick your battles. Then again, the Captain WAY over reacted, also.
Just because it is, doesn't mean it's right.
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