JumpSeater

Exactly. A lot of money to risk, even if it is for a good company.

OrionTanker

To continue what Oscar said:

I interviewed with SWA twice before I was hired. First time extremely disappointed. Still think it was a great investment on the type rating. SWA like everyone else hires people, not type ratings. If you show up to a SWA interview thinking that paying for the type sucks, well your rejection letter will suck too.

SWA hires attitude. If it is good and looking for a quality investment, SWA will hire you. Want to waste (spend) $8000, go to Vegas. The difference is wording: invest in your future. Do what it takes, especially if SWA is the only game in town.

mesasurvivor

You know.....when I graduated high school, I was offered a spot on the line at the local Chrysler plant putting hubcaps on cars. It paid a fortune (compared to restaurants & other jobs that a high school graduate was qualified for). Anyway, two of my friends made the jump and went to work at Chrysler. They thought I was nuts to pass up great pay and benefits to sit in a classroom and go to college. I lived like a rat for the years it took for a Bachelors and Masters degree and then went out and was hired at a great company. I started at the bottom, but quickly made far more than my friends who were still putting hubcaps on cars & I had a good future in store for me as opposed to a dead end job that paid well. Sacrifice and investment paid off!

When I made a career change about 10 years ago, I looked at what it would take (ratings, etc.) to get to the top of the airline pilot ladder. I again lived like a rat flying turboprops for a really marginal 121 carrier in order to get the PIC time necessary to apply for Southwest. It cost me a fortune to work for this carrier (compared to my previous executive career), but it was part of the cost of getting where I wanted to go. Just like the ratings that it took to get the job at the regional, the 737 type rating was just another step that had to be made to get where I wanted to go. Southwest was the only carrier that I targeted, since I knew many friends who had gone to other carriers only to be furloughed, run through the grinder & hating to go to work every day. I wanted something much better.

In my last year at the regional, I was faced with the same choice I had faced many years before. Take the easy route (stay at the regional or try to get on with another carrier that did not require a type rating), or take the hard road and stay at the regional, get my 1000 PIC and buck up for a type rating to make a try at Southwest. Many of my friends at the regional were jumping ship to go to work for other carriers that did not require a type or PIC time. They took the easiest route out of the regionals just to escape. It was a decision that ALL would live to regret as they are all either currently furloughed or facing furlough in the next few months. ALL hate going to work & regret not hanging on until they had the PIC for Southwest.

I was told by a number of Soutwest pilots that I knew that the 1000 Turbine PIC was an absolute minimum for even applying at Southwest (highest minimums in the industry) and that obtaining the type rating was an indicator of how much a pilot wanted to work for Southwest. I didn't have the money for the type, but I begged, borrowed and stole from everywhere to scrape up the money for the type. It was simply another investment that had to be made in order to get the best job in the industry. Same as investing in my previous education and suffering in a crappy job to get where I wanted to go, sacrifice and investing in my future paid off. I was hired by Southwest 5 years ago.

I won't bore anyone with salary figures, but I have a very financially rewarding career at a very stable company. Most importantly, I love going to work, am proud of my airline and believe that I am in the job that i will retire from. No second guessing.....no regrets.

The PIC and the type were just obstacles in the road. Nothing more.

Sacrifice and investment in your career and future are never wasted.

P.S. My friends from high school were furloughed from Chrysler over 10 years ago.

shoelu

No rationalization at all, it was simply a sound investment. Lets do the math using APC numbers for first year pay at minimum gaurantee: 1) American-$30660 2) Continental-$26784 3) Delta-$42432 4) United-$27720 5) Southwest-$51192. So, even if I would have gotten an offer from the highest paying legacy (which I didn't), I was ahead $8760. If you run the same numbers for the lowest paying it is a difference of $24408. So, I made an incredibly sound investment. You are completely correct that it was only a "job offer" but let me let you in on a little secret, they are all only "job offer's". The offer at Southwest or anywhere else is contigent on you passing the required training curriculum. I feel like I had a large leg up on passing anything required of me since I already had training and a type rating in the aircraft. No rationalizations needed, it was a good investment for me. Also, the type cost me $6000 not $8000 and was tax deductible which added more money in my bank account. It may not make sense for everyone, but for me it was a win win situation.

dojetdriver

Like I said, open to varying interpretations.

If you made the career change 10 years ago, spent time at a regional, to get to SW, I'm guessing you got hired at SW in somewhere around 2001-2002 at the earliest? If so, SW doesn't have bragging rights on "highest minimums in the industry". FedEx had that requirement back then as well. If you want to tip the balance with a required type rating, then sure. But just going by flight time, SW can't make that claim.

Also, along the lines of the rest of what you wrote. That same rationale is also used by people that go to GIA. All that money spent is an "investment" in their future. Again, open to varying interpretations.

Elliot

Dojetdriver,

Might want to read his post again. Or do the math on what 2009 minus five years equals. (*Disclaimer* - I understand we're into the first few weeks of 2010, but giving him the benefit of the doubt that he left those accuracies out of his "five year" equation.)

Either way, Southwest is industry leading in their contract as well as with management/labor relations. I highly doubt, as some on this board have posted, that it was "their last option".

Vikings Fan

dojetdriver

Oops, missed it.

A FACT to consider though, that contract is only industry leading because the legacies took such big hits. Something that most people overlook. And NO, I'm not a SouthWest "hater", I'd go to work there if given the chance. But again, that's a FACT. People can choose to ignore it if they so chose, doesn't change it's validity.

Elliot

DJD,

I am neither a "WN Kool-aid drinking wanna be", nor am I a "hater of those who "invested in their future, by obtaining a type rating, and are currently employed there." It's a great airline, great people, but wasn't one that I'd seen myself working for, for personal reasons.

I will have to agree to disagree with you sir on your interpretation of why their contract is industry leading. "Yes", the other legacies filed bankruptcy, taking on the "concessionary" contracts that they have now. It is because they (legacies carriers) had "outdated" business models and chose to place their inefficiences and poor management decisions on the backs of labor.

Southwest on the other hand, up until the last few quarters of operational accounting, have been MAKING money. Not because their "employees" make too much, not because their "contract" is industry leading, but because they have a "SOLID & SUSTAINABLE" business plan, with an atmosphere between management and labor relations that prove to make this plan a success.

Good day,

Vikings Fan

shoelu

You are absolutely correct it is a FACT that legacies took a huge hit, mostly through the bankruptcy process. In other words they did not have a sustainable business model to weather the economic storm that hit and were forced into bankruptcy. Meanwhile, SWA continued to show profitability with their business model and avoided bankruptcy (knock on wood). SWA kept their wages and contract in tact. If you used to make $500 an hour but now make $50 an hour the W-2 still reflects the current pay rate. I'm not trying to knock the pilots at other airlines. Bad management was the root of most of the problems and pilots had nothing to do with it but the results are the same.

dojetdriver

Oh boy, where to start;

Yep, agree. Never said otherwise. As far as your choice to not work there, cool. It's all about personal choices, not for me to judge yours.

I'm, sorry sir, but can you tell me where I was a addressing the how and the why in all that? You don't have to lecture me on how and why everybody else came down, it's common knowledge. But the fact remains, everybody else came down, SW DIDN'T go up. You can acknowledge or ignore that FACT.

And that's never been in dispute.

Good day to you too