DJD,

Disregard the tone taken by my choice of calling you "sir" in a response to your post. I more appropriately should have included an emoticon (i.e. ) behind it, to relay the intent of it not being a "lecture" to you or anyone else on this board.

My intentions were to only offer an opinion of why I believe that SWA has an industry leading contract. Anyone can have their own opinion as to why, whether it be because "the other carriers are working in the concessionary contracts of their post-bankruptcy business plans", or because SWA unlike many other companies have retained an "atmosphere" with its labor groups. Like it or not, I would put money on the fact that a "greater percentage of SWA employees (read-agents, flight attendants, and pilots) are still more happy to come to work, than someone working for a legacy carrier who has "drug them through the mud" in bankruptcy filing.

This motivation alone gives the people of SWA and industry leading contract, not because they're paid more, get more time off, but again because of the "atmosphere and work environment" they report to each day. If you question their loyalty, try starting a thread on APC with a "bash" against SWA. See how many responses you get.

Again, not trying to lecture and not "discounting" your facts of everyone else working in a "concessionary contract". Just offering my opinion as to why I believe SWA has an industry leading contract.....................it is much more than what a person gets paid per hour. (Or per trip in their case.)

Vikings Fan

 

Note, I had to remove your emoticons, the software wouldn't let me post a reply as there were too many, however;

Fair enough;

Those things are important, you leave them out, bad things happen, very bad things .

And I accept your opinion as fact, and won't dispute it, I can't, nobody can. But there was a reason in a previous post when I quoted you and I highlighted/bolded contract and left the part after that the same. It was to separate the CBA from the other factors. Nobody can argue that SW has supreme labor relations and a superior business model. However, it seems that on here (and other places) many of those things are starting to wane slightly as SW starts to confront some challenges that they haven't had to deal as of yet. Reference the threads on some of their 1-2-3 hotel rules and how management isn't securing that for them on new/renewed hotel contracts. Although not contractually guaranteed (if I'm not mistaken), it was nice perk/benefit that management negotiated on their crew's behalf. Albeit, on overhead cost they now seem to want to curtail.

Agreed on both your points. It's a shame that the legacies could never grasp this concept. Although it could be argued that Gordon Bethune was trying in his time at the helm of CAL. Relatively speaking of course. A shame that his efforts in that area were practically erased with his follower by "kahnstahntly improving their prahhhduks and shervishes".

Again, I can accept your opinion as fact as to why things are the way they are now. It's just that there were factual events prior that that led to the state of the way things are now.

I'm going to go back to coloring now.

 

Gentlemen,

Just a few thoughts to put this in context:

It might be a hefty investment to pay for a type-rating, and not the norm by most airline standards. However, consider my current job. I work in accounting/finance/sales. I paid a pretty penny to get an education from Notre Dame, and now I am paying for my own MBA at a school here in MN - to make me MORE competitive than all the other business majors out there. Some companies send their employees to get an MBA on the company dime. Some companies don't pay for education but they do take a real interest in people that went out and got their own because it shows initiative and it sets those people apart.

Bottom line: if you can make yourself competitive by putting in some extra time/money/effort - then do so. I plan on getting a type rating, and if it gets me a job, great. If not, it won't hurt me in any way.

SouthWest is a great model for the niche it serves. It is a low cost carrier for passengers that care about getting to another location at a low price. It is like the Wal-Mart of the airlines. They push costs off on suppliers and prospective pilots in order to maintain low prices. However, try finding a SWA flight to Hong Kong, AMS, or NRT. Ain't going to happen (yet) - just like you won't find Tiffany & Co diamonds in Wal-Mart. The problem the legacies face is that they are trying to be a Wal-Mart and a Sharper Image at the same time. It doesn't work. The legacies need to move out of the identity crisis stage and figure out if they want to fight it out with SWA in the trenches or if they want to target a more business oriented, higher priced clientele that has a lower elasticity of demand. If the legacies could cater to the mid-level exec, you might see demand shift back away from corporate travel and into the airlines, especially with all the pressure to contain costs and stay out of $3,000 an hour flights for execs. Basically, comparing SWA and UAL/DAL/NWA/AA is like comparing apples to oranges - they may both fly airplanes but they fundamentally have a different purpose. Just my 2 cents, but let's not run off on a tangent about paying for training when you find it in many other sectors of the economy. Heck, I even paid for my own EMT/Firefighter classes - but that doesn't make me any less effective as an EMT than a guy that had his FD pay for it. Same training - different check writer.

Brian

 

What tradition is that? Having to go out and pay for a type rating so you can get a job? Sounds eerily like pay for training to me.. a bane in this industry. But then again, SWA is a different animal. Enjoy.

 

No, it's not called Pay for Training. Pay for Training is when an airline requires that you pay them for your initial training. Southwest gets no money from new-hires for training. As a matter of fact, they have to train you anyway. The cost difference with making your PC your type ride is negligible. All SWA does is require that you have a 737 type as a standard. It's not Pay for Training.....you're not even close.

 

As an 11 year SWA flight attendant who quit to try and return as a pilot there someday, I'll reply to the original question.

No, SWA will not waive the 1000 turbine PIC or type rating requirements for internal or former (or anyone) employees. You have to meet the same requirements as anyone off the street.

I was told by everyone who mentored me during my time at SWA that being a current or former employee will help you get the interview, but after that the ball is in your court. That being said, they want to hire back former employees but nothing is guaranteed.

As far as already being an employee and doing and internal placement application for pilot, I'm not sure that this has ever been done.

Also, be careful about having another flying job and working at SWA at the same time. SWA was ok with me working as a flight instructor and other flying jobs, but as soon as it was time to go to a regional I was told it was time to quit Southwest (hardest decision I've ever made). Of course I left on good terms, eligible for rehire and they know exactly why I left.

Hope this helps, let me know if you have any other questions.

 

Look, plain and simple...some have to buy their type to get hired by an airline and others get hired by an airline that will PIC type them once they get hired.....if you have to buy your type to get hired then so be it...if everyone refused to do it...it would stop.

 

You don't actually have to "buy" a type, you just have to have one. How & where you get it is up to you.

 

Exactly. It's disturbing that SWA pilots can't see this simple concept.

My employer paid for all of my type ratings. That's the way it should be.

 

I give up...