SWA Internal Hires?
01-21-2010, 02:43 AM
#41
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 737
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by tpmagee
You don't actually have to "buy" a type, you just have to have one. How & where you get it is up to you.
Understood...just not my point. SWA has enough money they can type those who do not have the type rating....on their PC.
01-21-2010, 04:20 AM
#42
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 558
Originally Posted by contrail67
Understood...just not my point. SWA has enough money they can type those who do not have the type rating....on their PC.
Moondog
Last edited by Moondog; 01-21-2010 at 04:23 AM. Reason: wording
01-21-2010, 04:20 AM
#43
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Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 233
Originally Posted by contrail67
Understood...just not my point. SWA has enough money they can type those who do not have the type rating....on their PC.
There are bigger things in life to be concerned with.
01-21-2010, 05:00 AM
#44
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Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 420
To somewhat address the original post to this thread:
You are absolutely right. In my opinion, SWA hires business managers/customer service professionals who fly airplanes NOT pilots. There is no clearer example of this than simply examining and going through their interview process.
(I do not currently work for SWA. I claim no divine insight to their People Department, but my post is based purely on my experience in their interview and being "invited to continue in the process" by currently swimming in the potential new hire pilot pool.)
The interview at SWA is plain and simple a personality interview. There are no technical questions, they don't care to see you demonstrate tracking radials, steep turns, instrument approaches on some version of a flight simulator. As a professional aviator who "qualifies" with the minimums to even get the interview, I believe they safely assume you have the basic ability to fly a transport category aircraft to ATP standards. Why are they going to waste their time and money testing this? They want something more, much more. They will get it. And if you can't give it, you will NOT get a pilot job offer.
In my case, I bought the type before being offered the interview. Why? Because I wanted to make myself competitive from the outset, and I wanted to demonstrate through my ACTIONS that I want to work for SWA, not just give them the same B.S. answer in an interview - talk is cheap, very cheap. Actions are expensive and require substantial effort. As an interviewer who are you going to believe? The candidate who says "I want to work for you" or the candidate who says "I want to work for you AND I am willing to put my money, time and substantial effort where my mouth is"?
Some wait to get the interview offer before getting the type. I have to be honest though. In my Higher Power Aviation type rating class, if memory serves correctly, the only people already offered the job before getting the type rating were military pilots with substantial internal connections at SWA. I am NOT saying my type class was typical or even representative. It was just my experience, in my type class.
Me? I am a first generation airline pilot with no military experience, and no real connections to any pilots or management people at SWA. But I believe my personality and professional work ethic best meshes with SWA's culture and I was willing to put my money where my mouth is.
Back to one of my original points. Again, this is only my opinion. Why does SWA want you to get the type rating before you start new hire class? I can imagine many, many reasons. Some of which may include -
1) Tradition - everyone else had to do it, so should you.
2) Ultimately reduces training costs because you have already demonstrated ATP proficiency in their aircraft.
But these are what I think are the real reasons, the pilot personality they are looking for to maintain their CULTURE:
3) Entrepreneurial Spirit - they want the "I am not entitled to anything, I go get it myself if I really want it" personality. Entitlement attitudes all they way from top management to the working line pilot to the ramper operating the tug pushing you back from the gate, in my opinion and I believe in SWA's opinion as well, are one of the primary reasons why many airlines fail to be successful.
4) "We hire managers, not employees" - successful leaders in business, take calculated, educated risks - buying your type rating for a chance at a job is a calculated risk requiring substantial money, time and effort with a potentially large reward for the risk taken. As has been discussed on this thread, if you do get the job, the cost of the type rating is made up in a little more than one months of salary, because quite frankly SWA pays so damn well.
5) Taking ownership responsibility for your career by getting the type rating demonstrates that you will take ownership responsibility for SWA, its customers, aircraft, and fellow teammates.
6) Like I said above, for those of us already with the type at the interview, they don't really have to scrutinize my answer to "Why do you want to work for SWA?" and they don't have to worry about my ability to be able to safely operate a B737 - they can focus the interview strictly on personality - finding personalities who will blend into, mesh with, and positively contribute to the SWA CULTURE.
For anybody reading my post and thinks the reason SWA makes money and pays their pilots so well is because they "fly airplanes", please re-read my post.
Perhaps any SWA pilots care to offer their two cents on what I wrote.
You are absolutely right. In my opinion, SWA hires business managers/customer service professionals who fly airplanes NOT pilots. There is no clearer example of this than simply examining and going through their interview process.
(I do not currently work for SWA. I claim no divine insight to their People Department, but my post is based purely on my experience in their interview and being "invited to continue in the process" by currently swimming in the potential new hire pilot pool.)
The interview at SWA is plain and simple a personality interview. There are no technical questions, they don't care to see you demonstrate tracking radials, steep turns, instrument approaches on some version of a flight simulator. As a professional aviator who "qualifies" with the minimums to even get the interview, I believe they safely assume you have the basic ability to fly a transport category aircraft to ATP standards. Why are they going to waste their time and money testing this? They want something more, much more. They will get it. And if you can't give it, you will NOT get a pilot job offer.
In my case, I bought the type before being offered the interview. Why? Because I wanted to make myself competitive from the outset, and I wanted to demonstrate through my ACTIONS that I want to work for SWA, not just give them the same B.S. answer in an interview - talk is cheap, very cheap. Actions are expensive and require substantial effort. As an interviewer who are you going to believe? The candidate who says "I want to work for you" or the candidate who says "I want to work for you AND I am willing to put my money, time and substantial effort where my mouth is"?
Some wait to get the interview offer before getting the type. I have to be honest though. In my Higher Power Aviation type rating class, if memory serves correctly, the only people already offered the job before getting the type rating were military pilots with substantial internal connections at SWA. I am NOT saying my type class was typical or even representative. It was just my experience, in my type class.
Me? I am a first generation airline pilot with no military experience, and no real connections to any pilots or management people at SWA. But I believe my personality and professional work ethic best meshes with SWA's culture and I was willing to put my money where my mouth is.
Back to one of my original points. Again, this is only my opinion. Why does SWA want you to get the type rating before you start new hire class? I can imagine many, many reasons. Some of which may include -
1) Tradition - everyone else had to do it, so should you.
2) Ultimately reduces training costs because you have already demonstrated ATP proficiency in their aircraft.
But these are what I think are the real reasons, the pilot personality they are looking for to maintain their CULTURE:
3) Entrepreneurial Spirit - they want the "I am not entitled to anything, I go get it myself if I really want it" personality. Entitlement attitudes all they way from top management to the working line pilot to the ramper operating the tug pushing you back from the gate, in my opinion and I believe in SWA's opinion as well, are one of the primary reasons why many airlines fail to be successful.
4) "We hire managers, not employees" - successful leaders in business, take calculated, educated risks - buying your type rating for a chance at a job is a calculated risk requiring substantial money, time and effort with a potentially large reward for the risk taken. As has been discussed on this thread, if you do get the job, the cost of the type rating is made up in a little more than one months of salary, because quite frankly SWA pays so damn well.
5) Taking ownership responsibility for your career by getting the type rating demonstrates that you will take ownership responsibility for SWA, its customers, aircraft, and fellow teammates.
6) Like I said above, for those of us already with the type at the interview, they don't really have to scrutinize my answer to "Why do you want to work for SWA?" and they don't have to worry about my ability to be able to safely operate a B737 - they can focus the interview strictly on personality - finding personalities who will blend into, mesh with, and positively contribute to the SWA CULTURE.
For anybody reading my post and thinks the reason SWA makes money and pays their pilots so well is because they "fly airplanes", please re-read my post.
Perhaps any SWA pilots care to offer their two cents on what I wrote.
01-21-2010, 05:05 AM
#45
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 128
Originally Posted by Moondog
Folks, get over this debate, its a moot point. The type is a condition of hire at SWA and thats that. I am now working for a company that requires a BS degree and 10 years of experience, the company didn't supply either. This discussion is old and stale. If you don't think its "right" to have meet the conditions of employment for SWA don't seek employment there, if you want to work there, then do it, but let this stupid debate end!
Moondog
Moondog
Last edited by MILPILOT17; 01-21-2010 at 07:05 AM.
01-21-2010, 05:18 AM
#46
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Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 420
Need I say more . . . . ?
Southwest Airlines Reports Fourth Quarter Profit and 37th Consecutive Year of Profitability
Southwest Airlines - Press Releases
Southwest Airlines - Press Releases
01-21-2010, 05:38 AM
#47
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Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Reserve on tha Beach
Posts: 546
Originally Posted by cfitstew
As an 11 year SWA flight attendant who quit to try and return as a pilot there someday, I'll reply to the original question.
No, SWA will not waive the 1000 turbine PIC or type rating requirements for internal or former (or anyone) employees. You have to meet the same requirements as anyone off the street.
I was told by everyone who mentored me during my time at SWA that being a current or former employee will help you get the interview, but after that the ball is in your court. That being said, they want to hire back former employees but nothing is guaranteed.
As far as already being an employee and doing and internal placement application for pilot, I'm not sure that this has ever been done.
Also, be careful about having another flying job and working at SWA at the same time. SWA was ok with me working as a flight instructor and other flying jobs, but as soon as it was time to go to a regional I was told it was time to quit Southwest (hardest decision I've ever made). Of course I left on good terms, eligible for rehire and they know exactly why I left.
Hope this helps, let me know if you have any other questions.
No, SWA will not waive the 1000 turbine PIC or type rating requirements for internal or former (or anyone) employees. You have to meet the same requirements as anyone off the street.
I was told by everyone who mentored me during my time at SWA that being a current or former employee will help you get the interview, but after that the ball is in your court. That being said, they want to hire back former employees but nothing is guaranteed.
As far as already being an employee and doing and internal placement application for pilot, I'm not sure that this has ever been done.
Also, be careful about having another flying job and working at SWA at the same time. SWA was ok with me working as a flight instructor and other flying jobs, but as soon as it was time to go to a regional I was told it was time to quit Southwest (hardest decision I've ever made). Of course I left on good terms, eligible for rehire and they know exactly why I left.
Hope this helps, let me know if you have any other questions.
01-21-2010, 06:29 AM
#48
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 168
Originally Posted by IrishFlyer757
... and see if someone will offer me an answer to my question in the very post that started this thread...
01-21-2010, 07:46 AM
#50
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Posts: 60
If you really want a job somewhere and see an opportunity to get a foot in the door, it can only benefit you to take it. First, it gives you first-hand insight as to whether it is a place you might want to stay for your career. It also presents your work ethic to them (so don't suck). Just make sure you leave on good terms so that if they liked you before, they will want you back. In my opinion, any company should want good employees back, and be sure to keep in contact when you leave.
On the type thing... I hear, "get the type, get the job." I am not aware of WN's policy being that. From what I know, having the type just gives you an advantage over others without it. Some, after getting it, will never even get an interview and will have wasted their money (my opinion), so it is a gamble. If you have some people to recommend you there, then your odds go up. Personally, I think any company should extend a job offer contingent upon getting the type within 6 mos, which I know WN has done in the past. I am not in the habit of collecting types for the fun of it, and I am not sold on the "it's an investment" bit. College is an investment, but even there you get accepted before you pay. People with the expectation that WN would be calling the next day will always be bitter and those who got hired will always claim it was the best investment they ever made. Just make the best decision you can considering your circumstances and good luck.
On the type thing... I hear, "get the type, get the job." I am not aware of WN's policy being that. From what I know, having the type just gives you an advantage over others without it. Some, after getting it, will never even get an interview and will have wasted their money (my opinion), so it is a gamble. If you have some people to recommend you there, then your odds go up. Personally, I think any company should extend a job offer contingent upon getting the type within 6 mos, which I know WN has done in the past. I am not in the habit of collecting types for the fun of it, and I am not sold on the "it's an investment" bit. College is an investment, but even there you get accepted before you pay. People with the expectation that WN would be calling the next day will always be bitter and those who got hired will always claim it was the best investment they ever made. Just make the best decision you can considering your circumstances and good luck.
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