Delta Pilots Association
10-30-2010, 07:32 AM
#1911
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat
ALPA's continued unwillingness to stand up and demand more has continued. Our profession as a result has been denigrated by management, abused by egotistical, headline grabbing politicians and made the butt of jokes by the travelling public.
That's why maybe ALPA should stand up with CAPA, IBT, APA, SWAPA, USAPA, IPA and others...for once.
Ya' think?
That's why maybe ALPA should stand up with CAPA, IBT, APA, SWAPA, USAPA, IPA and others...for once.
Ya' think?
You were a former MEC Vice Chairman during the time you blame ALPA for not "getting" you a contract. What happened to "independence plus" and the responsibility you and the Atlas and Polar pilots have to take on for your internal failures?
Yet you blame ALPA for your own shortcomings.
You were at the BOD where the transgressions you alleged happened. What did you do to stop it? What did you do to protect the membership? Oh, that's right, blamed York and Prater for your failings.
Btw, a business agent is nothing like a contract adminstrator, more like an MEC Chair and CA rolled into one...and he doesn't have to be a seniority list pilot at your local. Talk about a National agenda. 747's receivership happened after the timeframe you reference, and who got put in charge? The former Atlas MEC Chair who you worked directly for...
Again, thanks for highlighting how ineffective CAPA has been in the NPRM/ARC processes.
10-30-2010, 07:43 AM
#1912
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: No to large RJs
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat
Pineapple, I would suggest to you that your willingness to settle for Option #2 goes to the root of ALPA's problems since the Duffy era. To wit; when Elizabeth Dole suggested she intended to have us all aim for the little cup, Captain Duffy was offered an alternative. Have the then 44,000 strong ALPA send tightly sealed fluid filled jars to the dear lady to express our displeasure. He was horrified and said we needed to just "go along."
ALPA's continued unwillingness to stand up and demand more has continued. Our profession as a result has been denigrated by management, abused by egotistical, headline grabbing politicians and made the butt of jokes by the travelling public.
Maybe ALPA needs to grow a set and stand up with everyone else for once...for the profession and the professionals. "Safety" is what it's supposed to be about. Once you compromise, it's hard to get it back.
Congress will support you when they see you have the public behind you. The public will support you when you stand up and say " we will not risk your lives over insufficient rest." And a few cancelled flights, with respectful PA's made to the passengers by the fatigued crew will end up going viral on YouTube like the JFK landing...and the media will be on board.
Then..."Dear Leader" Babbitt...a former ALPA President...will understand that pilots CAN stand up and be a force that he must deal with.
That's why maybe ALPA should stand up with CAPA, IBT, APA, SWAPA, USAPA, IPA and others...for once.
Ya' think?
ALPA's continued unwillingness to stand up and demand more has continued. Our profession as a result has been denigrated by management, abused by egotistical, headline grabbing politicians and made the butt of jokes by the travelling public.
Maybe ALPA needs to grow a set and stand up with everyone else for once...for the profession and the professionals. "Safety" is what it's supposed to be about. Once you compromise, it's hard to get it back.
Congress will support you when they see you have the public behind you. The public will support you when you stand up and say " we will not risk your lives over insufficient rest." And a few cancelled flights, with respectful PA's made to the passengers by the fatigued crew will end up going viral on YouTube like the JFK landing...and the media will be on board.
Then..."Dear Leader" Babbitt...a former ALPA President...will understand that pilots CAN stand up and be a force that he must deal with.
That's why maybe ALPA should stand up with CAPA, IBT, APA, SWAPA, USAPA, IPA and others...for once.
Ya' think?
And PG, you asked if I would rather have today's rules. I most certainly would. Flying 9 or 10 hours scheduled per day is less safe and more fatiguing, plain and simple. You even agreed. Anything over 8 should be augmented. ALPA is going against its founding principles and its constituents.
Last edited by DAWGS; 10-30-2010 at 08:44 AM.
10-30-2010, 07:52 AM
#1913
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: No to large RJs
Posts: 369
You were a former MEC Vice Chairman during the time you blame ALPA for not "getting" you a contract. What happened to "independence plus" and the responsibility you and the Atlas and Polar pilots have to take on for your internal failures?
You were at the BOD where the transgressions you alleged happened. What did you do to stop it? What did you do to protect the membership? Oh, that's right, blamed York and Prater for your failings.
You were at the BOD where the transgressions you alleged happened. What did you do to stop it? What did you do to protect the membership? Oh, that's right, blamed York and Prater for your failings.
How about showing a little class and not your arse. Attacking the poster rather than the argument....really? I thought you were better than that.
Last edited by DAWGS; 10-30-2010 at 08:26 AM.
10-30-2010, 08:10 AM
#1914
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
Originally Posted by DAWGS
Slow,
How about showing a little class and not your arse. Attacking the poster rather than the argument....really? I thought you were better than that.
How about showing a little class and not your arse. Attacking the poster rather than the argument....really? I thought you were better than that.
btw, You hold Carl to the same standard when responding to me?
Or do you and my good friend 88driver only respond when I step on their toes?
10-30-2010, 08:27 AM
#1915
Get's Every Day Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 1,858
Ygtbsm
Originally Posted by 0RAC
Pretty sure the d'bag DPA FO ran for a few ALPA positions and lost. Between his public outing of his disdain for fellow pilots and being a sore loser, I'm sure he couldn't win an election within five miles of a Delta cockpit. I'm not sure about the other two though.
10-30-2010, 08:31 AM
#1916
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: No to large RJs
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by slowplay
The poster's "arguments" are specious. They are historical revisionism, and attempt to absolve him of responsibility for his own failings. It's important to note the actions the poster has actually taken to place his point of view in context.
btw, You hold Carl to the same standard when responding to me? Or do you and my good friend 88driver only respond when I step on their toes?
btw, You hold Carl to the same standard when responding to me?
Or do you and my good friend 88driver only respond when I step on their toes?
10-30-2010, 08:33 AM
#1917
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Originally Posted by DAWGS
Slow,
How about showing a little class and not your arse. Attacking the poster rather than the argument....really? I thought you were better than that.
How about showing a little class and not your arse. Attacking the poster rather than the argument....really? I thought you were better than that.
10-30-2010, 08:48 AM
#1918
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Originally Posted by ExAF
WOW! Talk about a shot from left field. Do you know the "d'bag DPA FO" or did you just come up with this opinion/slander on your own? Did he p|ss in your Corn Flakes or something? I know I've been warned for calling someone a "d-bag" on this forum. Hope you got one too. You sure about him "losing elections" or you just making "stuff" up? (BTW, I know the real answer.) I'll wager you aren't sure about the "d'bag DPA FO" either. Talk about personal attacks with no relevance to the thread.
If ALPA v DPA breaks down and is drawn into a Jr. v Sr. struggle, game over. It will be a lop sided landslide instead of a thoughtful decision making process. Then, we will be forever torn apart as a pilot group and will look much more like USAPA, or as they call it "the angry FO club."
Those that try to frame this decision as fNW v fDL, Jr. v Sr., are unable to intelligently debate the issues and letting their emotions control them. Same as these "drive bys" that are being engaged by a few that frequent here.
10-30-2010, 08:50 AM
#1919
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: 767ER capt
Posts: 1,190
While I'm still not on board with DPA (yet), ALPA's position in support of a 500 hour minimum instead of a 1500 hour minimum has caused me to end my participation in ALPA PAC, after more than 20 years.
While I can see the need to have a voice in Washington, this isn't the kind of legislative influence that I'm willing to support.
While I can see the need to have a voice in Washington, this isn't the kind of legislative influence that I'm willing to support.
10-30-2010, 09:12 AM
#1920
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: What day is it?
Posts: 963
Ladies and Gentlemen:
I have received a very nice private email from Slowplay, offering to continue take the discussion way off topic about me if I don't stop the "anti-ALPA venom."
I will not engage in his desire to take this off track and derail your discussion. If you have questions for me about what happened at my carrier, or why we left, p/m me.
This is YOUR forum to discuss DPA. It is also your right to discuss and vent about ALPA or anyone if you choose...there's still something called the "First Amendment."
Both sides have opinions and beliefs. Both should be heard in order to make sound decisions, free of fear.
I have received a very nice private email from Slowplay, offering to continue take the discussion way off topic about me if I don't stop the "anti-ALPA venom."
I will not engage in his desire to take this off track and derail your discussion. If you have questions for me about what happened at my carrier, or why we left, p/m me.
This is YOUR forum to discuss DPA. It is also your right to discuss and vent about ALPA or anyone if you choose...there's still something called the "First Amendment."
Both sides have opinions and beliefs. Both should be heard in order to make sound decisions, free of fear.
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