T- even if someone you do not want elected get the top job, I say give em a chance before throwing them to the wolves. I may not get who I want, but that does not mean I will not give the new president a few months to see if they can change a few things.


I have two guys I would be happy with, and one I would be disgusted with. I am willing to see where this process leads. I trust my reps who are there this week.

 

See Carl;
I know three of my four reps really well, and no one is going to sell them anything. They think for themselves and even if I do not agree with their position, I give them that. All of my reps are on the same page on scope. All know that the next sale would probably take care of 115 seats and below and the one after that 150 and below. I cannot see them selling that line to me or anyone else.

It does not mean that management will not try, but most of these guys see what the sales of scope have done to their careers. Both top, middle, and bottom end sales mind you.

 

Sorry man, but I can't let you get off with the above response because it is completely unresponsive to what I said. To review, here is what you said:

My response was one of disbelief that you could be so presumptive that you lost 6 years of longevity at Delta Air Lines while you were working at ASA...because of scope sales at Delta. You really need to walk that back because it was an absolutely silly thing to say.

Carl

 

Carl,

You know I love you like a brother man, but ACL has a couple of points here:

1) He would have been on board in 2001 if not for relaxed scope
2) He would have been on board in 1999 if not for the D-MEC wanting to keep RJ flying (and particularly RJ pilots) off the property
3) He would have a 1999 DOH if treated like a ramper, gate agent, manager, mechanic, a NWA pilot or any of the other THOUSANDS of employees Delta acquired from a variety of airlines, including the regionals.

Outsourcing did, in fact, keep him off the property. ALPA's policies of dividing our labor resulted in his not being transferred, or merged, as other employee groups were. IMHO he was, and will forever be, damaged by a loss of longevity which is the direct result of failed scope policies.

Arguing whether he, or a furloughed pilot, suffered more is pointless when we both can agree on the source of the problem and the necessary fix.

Unity = Delta flying performed by Delta pilots.

 

Spot on, Buck. ACL was waiting on class in 2001 when outsourcing took full hold on the Delta system.

I can't see DALPA selling any small jet scope beyond what it is now. They know it would be suicide. The big x-factors with scope now are codesharing and reclaimation.

 

Same here brother man, but I'll never understand how anyone can make the leap that they would have been hired years earlier than they were. All hiring is so tenuous, and all it takes is one thumbs down by one person along the process. To presume anything else is...well, presumptuous.

There is no possibility that this can be characterized as fact.

Completely agree.

Carl

 

Suicide for whom? DALPA? ALPA national? It would be suicide for neither. The ALPA apologists would just stream from the four corners of the globe stating:

1. It was not a scope sale. Only those fostering disunity would say such a thing.
2. We had to do it because our lawyers said so.
3. OK, we understand you're mad. But whatcha gonna do? Go with DPA?
4. Don't worry, RJ's are good for Delta Air Lines...you'll see we're right.

So you see, it won't be suicide for the union. It will sure be murder for our careers though.

Carl

 

The use of the DPA as a nuclear option to avoid ratification of an agreement that facilitated 100 seat flying is... interesting.

It is really strange that politically it might be more feasible to nuke the bargaining agent than to sell people on unity, force negotiating discipline, or vote down a bad deal.

If our MEC elects one of the architects of outsourcing to senior leadership the DPA's case gets that much stronger.

It would seem the DPA might have the same problem the D-MEC has. Who has clean hands when it comes to outsourcing? Can we identify any experienced leaders who have fought the trend of the last 12 years?

 

This is really the ultimate in a circular argument. It goes like this:

1. Major pilots cave on scope due to fear.
2. Regional pilots line up for these jobs that take flying that used to be at the major.
3. Major stops hiring and even furloughs.
4. Regionals grow fat from flying routes that used to be at major.
5. Regional pilot can't get job at major because major isn't hiring.
6. Regional pilot laments the loss of longevity at major and blames the people of point 1.

I can hardly believe there is a single person that agrees with this without taking stock of the role played by said regional pilot. How great it would have been for managements at the majors to have shot their negotiating wad with their scope concessions, only to have found that nobody was willing to take those jobs. How different things would be if those pilots simply said: "No thanks...I'll wait for management to see this won't fly, and then get my shot at the major." Major pilots would have gotten the pay hikes for everyone on the property at the expense of the scope cave in, but management's shiney new RJ's would have sit idle.

Carl

 

OK...The Dude has lost me on this one.

Carl