Delta Pilots Association
10-09-2010 | 11:08 AM
#891
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
ACL,
With all due respect, you weren't here and were on the other side of the tracks (benefiting side) when this all went down. You haven't been on the sour side yet. And I do mention yet, because the good intentions of our reps always seem to be swayed by the bigger picture of national. I have seen it before with what the reps said and what they did. I could care less about what people think they will do, all I see is past actions of our ALPA reps. Moak and this admin and previous before them have done nothing but weaken RJ scope. Line in the sand and unilateral decisons with Moak. Relaxing of RJ percentages with regard to our flying after 2001, all the while furloughing over a 1000 of our pilots, while you benefited. It just kind of rubs me the wrong way when you say, scare tactics. PLZZZZ....my eyes are wide open. Past speaks volumes.
And BTW, much damage was done without MEMRAT.
With all due respect, you weren't here and were on the other side of the tracks (benefiting side) when this all went down. You haven't been on the sour side yet. And I do mention yet, because the good intentions of our reps always seem to be swayed by the bigger picture of national. I have seen it before with what the reps said and what they did. I could care less about what people think they will do, all I see is past actions of our ALPA reps. Moak and this admin and previous before them have done nothing but weaken RJ scope. Line in the sand and unilateral decisons with Moak. Relaxing of RJ percentages with regard to our flying after 2001, all the while furloughing over a 1000 of our pilots, while you benefited. It just kind of rubs me the wrong way when you say, scare tactics. PLZZZZ....my eyes are wide open. Past speaks volumes.
And BTW, much damage was done without MEMRAT.
Carl
10-09-2010 | 11:16 AM
#892
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
I truly feel that besides the above, it is misdirected angst, and anger. The industry has stunk for ten plus years, and pilots are rightfully mad. We (you) are directing your anger at something, anything, because of the frustration of where we are and where we need to be. It in the end divides the group on a local level and national level, when now more than ever unity is what is needed to overcome the last decade.
Unity means agreement on the collective purpose and direction of DELTA AIR LINES' PILOTS! Not DAL pilots and ALPA national's opinions and desires, just Delta Air Lines' pilots. I believe we have that unity at present - we're just hamstrung by a national union with different priorities and different goals for their future.
Carl
10-09-2010 | 11:21 AM
#893
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
Likes: 0
From: A-320A
Carl;
If I ever find that to be the truth, I will admit you are correct.
I know what the company will categorize for the need for a 100 seat sale as. (Can't afford the debt; I discussed a response about 200 posts ago) I just will not buy it, and my reps better not either. If they do, I will give you the match my friend. Count on that.
If I ever find that to be the truth, I will admit you are correct.
I know what the company will categorize for the need for a 100 seat sale as. (Can't afford the debt; I discussed a response about 200 posts ago) I just will not buy it, and my reps better not either. If they do, I will give you the match my friend. Count on that.
10-09-2010 | 11:29 AM
#894
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
I am not sure you have been reading what everyone is typing that is "Pro-ALPA." I do not see one person on here that says that everything is great, there are no issues, and that there is nothing to see here. What we ALL have been stating is that yep, we agree, there are somethings within the National structure that need changing, but unlike you we feel that this new breed of reps is well aware of this, and that over time they will do just that. Simply, the difference in you and I T is that I beleive that ALPA can reform itself, whereas the Pro-DPA crowd believes that is not possible.
I have seen posts attacking Prater, etc, some attacking the small jet v large jet conflict at National, some the pay structure. From my position, I beleive that electing guys that agree that this stuff is front burner issue stuff will result in changes. Do not like Prater, do not let your Reps re-elect him, do not like the pay, call your rep today and demand that our reps on the Compensation Committee at the BOD stop this type of thing. (One of the FO reps from 44 is on this committee; I beleive) In regard to the conflict, have them change the threshold of Group A and B votes, or some other By-Law change that changes the voting structure.
I know a great many things that National does, really I do.
I know a great many things that National does, really I do.
Let's back up the bus RIGHT HERE. Why are independent unions invited to ALPA sponsored.. read paid for with MY DUES MONEY events.. and getting the benefit of these seminars.. working groups.. or whatever? You just proved a point I made earlier in spades. ALPA doesn't care who is a member, as long as they bring a checkbook. Why can't we bring a checkbook and let somebody else pay for the beef?
If there is tangible proof that the Lawyers are telling major airlines MEC's not to take scope back out of fear of DFR issues, fire them. The policy does not show a conflict. You have seen my posts over the last four and a half years on here. I want what is best for the DAL pilots, and all pilots. I have not been able to find tangible evidence that there is any of this going on. If you find proof, and we can not fix that, then that may in fact be enough for me to see a need for what you propose, but currently, I do not.
The reality is that we blame National on this thread for scope failures and conflicts with the Regional crowd when the truth is that the MEC ratified the agreement and their pilots voted all of the scope changes in.
As for the compensation of Prater, well go do a little research and see how that was approved.
How many times have you gone on-line and printed out the different committees that meet at the bod, then found out what ones your reps were going to be on? It takes work to be a pilot member of any association. The dues are not country club fees. Engagement is not just requested but necessary. You can argue that you have given up as Carl has, but I have not.
I know this is a long longer than the one word answer you want, but asking a question like that is actually the wrong way to go about it. Be specific. If we ever get to the point where there can never be any improvement I will get very concerned.
As for DPA, the idea may be relevant, the secrecy and timing is not. I welcome the opposition for ALPA. It is my opinion that if you do a real Pro Con list the answer is clear. I did and I stand by my original position that ALPA and its warts will still far out weigh an independent union that is loosely tied to a national organization.
The reality is that we blame National on this thread for scope failures and conflicts with the Regional crowd when the truth is that the MEC ratified the agreement and their pilots voted all of the scope changes in.
As for the compensation of Prater, well go do a little research and see how that was approved.
How many times have you gone on-line and printed out the different committees that meet at the bod, then found out what ones your reps were going to be on? It takes work to be a pilot member of any association. The dues are not country club fees. Engagement is not just requested but necessary. You can argue that you have given up as Carl has, but I have not.
I know this is a long longer than the one word answer you want, but asking a question like that is actually the wrong way to go about it. Be specific. If we ever get to the point where there can never be any improvement I will get very concerned.
As for DPA, the idea may be relevant, the secrecy and timing is not. I welcome the opposition for ALPA. It is my opinion that if you do a real Pro Con list the answer is clear. I did and I stand by my original position that ALPA and its warts will still far out weigh an independent union that is loosely tied to a national organization.
I couldn't care less who DPA is. I don't support them. What I do support is that they have brought to the forefront the boondoggle that ALPA national has become. $7000/month housing allowance.. Nice gig. So you and I will disagree. ALPA in your opinion is a worthwhile organisation.. bloated and out of control.. but worthwhile... in mine, unless some REAL change comes about, it is a giant pimple on the ass of the profession. I'll betcha nothing will change with the next administration.. no matter who is in charge. I owe another pilot dinner in GRU... You want some of that action? And I am talking about REAL change.
10-09-2010 | 11:31 AM
#895
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
You absolutely benefitted. And you did so at the expense of Delta Air Lines' pilots who were on the seniority list, and furloughed because their flying went to you at ASA. You're in complete denial if you don't see that.
You got stuck in a dead end job because YOU chose to take that job and KEEP that job for starvation wages. You did this in the hopes of joining a major. A major that YOUR actions were hurting. A profession that YOUR actions were undercutting.
Are you seriously that clueless? You lost 6 years of longevity? You're that sure you would have been hired by Delta Air Lines? Or any major airline? I've now decided that I'm mad because of all that longevity I lost at Delta. You know, those years that I was working for somebody else. 
It was ONLY your choice. This could be the most irresponsible "me generation" post I have ever seen.
Carl
Did I keep my job? Yep, by the skin of my teeth. Did life get better over there for me because of growth? Not much, I went to the RJ, but I would have much preferred to see DAL continue to hire and for me to sit sideways for a few years making more than I did commanding a RJ. It was not may choice, nor was it the choice of the others that have come over to DAL.
Carl
10-09-2010 | 11:33 AM
#896
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
You are being tremendously disingenuous. You guys that tie this argument to section 6 are using a pathetic and desperate attempt at keeping the ALPA honey pot growing. You know as well as I do that if DPA waited until after the next contract is signed, you and the other apologists would have a completely new battery of reasons why we just can't risk the DPA or anything other than ALPA.
I have to admit though, that this particular talking point from ALPA national is your strongest scare tactic. If you can adequately scare pilots using this point, your panicked attempt to keep ALPA national might just work.
Carl
I have to admit though, that this particular talking point from ALPA national is your strongest scare tactic. If you can adequately scare pilots using this point, your panicked attempt to keep ALPA national might just work.
Carl
This^^^^^^
10-09-2010 | 11:34 AM
#897
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Maybe a resolution is in order to prevent the release of any TA in the future without the prior release and MEMRAT of a solitary Section One first. That way any megalomaniacs that try and bribe us with a sexy Section Three grid won't even be able to get their trash goods to market.
Carl
10-09-2010 | 11:35 AM
#898
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
It's not just one or two. Secretaries making more than first year FOs... really? I don't care if they have been there 20 years. Others pulling down more than 12+ year FOs... really? It's worthy of firebombing except that no one can afford the fuel.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Lbell911
Regional
23
04-22-2012 10:33 AM
