Aren't some of the DPA folks former ALPA folks?

 

Did Hawaiian get $2,000,000,000 in bankruptcy returns? Guess what, that $2 Billion was up for change also. It's about the whole package partner.

 

You missed the whole point. He left TWA because after bankruptcy they stayed at the bottom of the industry. After bankruptcy, Pan Am, bottom of the industry. After bankruptcy Continental was bottom of the industry for 15 years, still has a joke for work rules. After bankruptcy, US Airways is sub-bottom of the industry and their contract is close to being exceeded by RJ carriers. Glad they have their successful DPA lawyer over there to lead them. No pay raises, bankrupt union, multiple lawsuits, no hope for a future, very rich lawyers. Excellent move, let's be like them.

After bankruptcy, Delta is second in the industry in a little over 3 years. So, sport, let me know any other carrier that has come even close to matching that record. That's my point. If I said we still don't have a long way to go, that would not be credible, to say we haven't come a long way already is also not credible.

We all had some other job before coming to Delta and I don't care what it was.

 

Skippy;

You are absolutely right, I completely missed your point, it was lost in your condescention. I am so unworthy in your self important presence.

Sport??? GMAFB

 

We're very lucky to have Lee Seham's firm at DPA. I know you hate him because he decertified ALPA at UsAir. And his evidentiary report showing ALPA's abuses at TWA was instrumental in securing a verdict against ALPA.

Jealousy and ankle biting directed to someone who keeps defeating you is unbecoming. You should study why it is that Lee keeps beating ALPA.

Carl

 

No, you know what the Hawaiian pilots got out of the 1113 process? More than DALPA did.

How about this. As for their DB plan, it was frozen, They did not hand it over to the company. Specifically, in April of 2005 when they voted on this, they agreed to freeze the DB for all pilots under 50 years of age beginning in 2008. Back then, Hawaiian contibuted 17% right of the bat into their targeted DC plans that made everyone very close to being made whole.

Last October, when they signed a new contract, they booked pay gains of up to 22% and a defined contibution rate of 19.4% as well as 2.4% matching. Now they have been made whole.

So alfa, did Hawaiian get as you say "2 billion" in BK returns? No. Nor did they need to because they did not effectively lose any of their retirement. We here at Delta got cents on the dollar in return for giving up or pension. Your $2 billion sounds fantastic, but it is ludicrously imaginative to believe that the pilots at Delta obtained a comparable outcome vis a vis retirement with Hawaiian.

Quite frankly, DALPA was outmaneuvered in the 1113 process.

The question is why and how did this happen. Was it bad council from CSW? Bad negotiators? Did that victims mentality surface again? (Bemoaning and lament over the "they changed judges on us" justification) Or perhaps did they just plain blink? Point is, we can not let that happen again in C12k.

Again, "the axe forgets, the tree remembers." 12,000 trees here, give or take a few, want restoration.

(Actually met I guy last week from SLC who said he would be happy with 8%/4/4/4, therefore the "give or take" disclaimer.)

If DALPA does not listen to their contituents, I can't imagine that will be received very well.

 

Yep and Atlanta is a significantly larger base, but proportionately, much less likely to support DPA than DTW. I heard the DPA lawyer was at the non rally(only 20 showed up to fill a 200 seat venue) in Atlanta touting the virtues of a DOH integration and bemoaning the fact that DOH was no longer part of ALPA's merger policy.

 

+1.

Scope has always been about economics and pilot priorities and the DPA attorney, coincidentally, also is a fervent supporter of DOH and is actively engaged in overturning an arbitrated list. Initial reports are that he spoke extensively in Atlanta about the change in ALPA's integration policy from the old DOH policy.

 

I mentioned this earlier, so here goes again. DALPA sends a significant amount of money to ALPA National that supports (provides services) many regional airlines. That money could be better spent on just Delta pilots, thus securing us a better contract.

DALPA money being spent for lawyers, aero-medical, etc, for our regional friends is imo and many that I fly with a conflict of interest.

 

Has a lack of funds ever prevented us from securing a "better" contract? Have our negotiators ever sat at the table with a disadvantage from a lack of funds?

Many DPA supporters are quick to point out that we have "increased" leverage this time around. Supposed items such as LUV rates, a belief that the NMB won't freeze negotiations and a belief that a PEB can only last 30 days. We then get a release from the NMB to seek self help. I personally will be thankful that our ALPA collection of conflict of interests won't be able to fly one more
flight and one more seat of struck work.

Gotta be careful for what we wish for. Me may gain some leverage/benefit only to sacrifice others.