Carl Spackler

They might. It depends on who the pilots elect to DPA leadership positions. But what about being tied to a national union that has the DUTY to represent pilots who continue to accept flying from the majors?

Carl

Bucking Bar

Carl,

Wilbur and Orville had to flip a coin to determine who was going to fly the first airplane. Our profession had literally not even gotten off the ground before there were two pilots for every job.

That's why we started ALPA. To prevent senior pilots being replaced by junior pilots willing to do the job for less and take imprudent risks to secure employment.

The very foundation of our need to unionize is born of the fact that someone else wants your job and management is happy to give it to them.

Blaming the regional guy (who has no say int he matter) is politically expedient, but fails to fix anything. It is a job for a union.

... and yes, I would take your job as 747 Captain. No offense, but it looks like a good gig from here.

Carl Spackler

No say in the matter? You ALWAYS have a say in the matter. I turned down my interview at AMR when I learned what a "B" scale meant. I made a choice. Some might say that was a stupid choice, but I made the choice. You really didn't mean that a regional pilot has no say in the matter...do you?

Yeah, but you wouldn't look as cool doing it.

Carl

Bucking Bar

The truth is we've used our position in a national union to **** block those uppidty regional pilots who tried to negotiate their own scope.

ALPA bears the scars of fighting litigation on OUR behalf.

Bucking Bar

Darn. Once again, Carl's right.

Carl Spackler

Don't understand how this is responsive to what I wrote below:

Whatever happened in the past, what about today? What about this conflict...today??

Carl

gloopy

Dude enough with the bleeding heard abused labour schpeel. The point is pilots have to be unionized. We are lifelong professionals with a staggering cost of entry compared to any other work group with maybe mechanics being in the same ballpark. The rest are not even remotely close.

In addition to that, we have legal exposure and medical issues that other work groups can't even fathom and when you factor that into the cost of entry and constant legislative battles directed at us specifically no other work group comes even remotely close.

I am well aware of why unions came about. Forcing children to work 23 hours a day on a slice of sawdust bread and a glass of rusty water with no bathroom break til their fingers would bleed and all that jazz. But no one in the entire industry will benefit long term by giving every single work group the ability to choke the golden goose until it gives them every last egg. Especially low skilled jobs with near zero cost of entry.

Bucking Bar

ALPA has used its power to thwart regional airlines who tried to conflict with our interests. Hence one of the powers of unity.

A lot of people talk about an alleged "conflict of interest" but no one can cite a single example of ALPA siding with a regional to our detriment.

If we negotiate in our mutual best interest, there is no conflict. When we screw up and try to outsource our flying to the lowest cost provider ALPA still got involved in the fight on our side. I'm not sure how a "conflict of interest" is a problem when:

(1) We always win,
(2) Even when we are stupid, rule 1 still applies

Again, our problem has not been ALPA national refusing to sign our ill considered outsourcing deals. They are not responsible for our contracts, neither is some regional pilot. We are responsible for OUR contracts.

Carl Spackler

I guess sometimes we just talk past each other despite our best efforts.

Carl

Superdad

ALPA National didn't negotiate away our scope, Delta pilots did. They didn't hold a gun to our heads and force us into it. We have seen the error of our ways, hopefully, and now we want back what WE gave away to begin with. ALPA will not impose their will on our contract, we have the sole power to get what we want, we just need to realize it.

Getting rid of ALPA in favor of another, possibly company concocted, union will not guarantee us a good contract. ALPA certainly has it's failings, but our scope and our next contract is not one if them.