Delta Pilots Association
10-31-2010, 07:41 PM
#2081
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Carl;
It better be a grand slam because if one or the other do not de-certify, as you suggest, the outcome, and effect will not be good for any of us.
It better be a grand slam because if one or the other do not de-certify, as you suggest, the outcome, and effect will not be good for any of us.
You saying the outcome will not be good for any of us is your opinion only based upon factless feelings and emotions. Nobody knows what will be better for certain. That's why risk taking is called risk taking. It scares the life out of status quo lovers...but nothing is ever gained without risk. Nothing.
Carl
10-31-2010, 07:41 PM
#2082
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Also Carl, a long time ago when I did no volunteer work, and did not engage my reps, I too thought that a independent union may be the way to go, but after engaging my reps, and learning the back history and facts about many issues, I realize that even though there are issues to fix within the organization, ALPA is bar none the way to go.
Ask any pilot who has ALPA step up to the plate to defend them and they will tel you that it is they who they want behind them.
Ask any pilot who has ALPA step up to the plate to defend them and they will tel you that it is they who they want behind them.
10-31-2010, 07:44 PM
#2083
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Position: Boeing Boss
Posts: 335
Originally Posted by NuGuy
Heyas,
Carl is right. Here's another example of one of the ALPA defenders trying to ID a poster.
Spash has no idea [deleted]. I don't know him from Adam, and yet he feels confident he knows me with a stunning 131 posts with an account barely 8 months old.
I call foul and the moderators need to step in.
Nu
Carl is right. Here's another example of one of the ALPA defenders trying to ID a poster.
Spash has no idea [deleted]. I don't know him from Adam, and yet he feels confident he knows me with a stunning 131 posts with an account barely 8 months old.
I call foul and the moderators need to step in.
Nu
Originally Posted by NuGuy
ALPA will not change. They are too ironbound by their communications scripture to deviate from it. It doesn't look like the next DALPA leadership will be any different.
And thank you for calling my posts "stunning"!
10-31-2010, 07:45 PM
#2084
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
It will need to be no such thing. A DPA will be a very large union. Plenty of expertise in all areas, without the conflict of interest within ALPA. Conflicts that include representing the pilots of airlines to whom we have sold our flying.
You saying the outcome will not be good for any of us is your opinion only based upon factless feelings and emotions. Nobody knows what will be better for certain. That's why risk taking is called risk taking. It scares the life out of status quo lovers...but nothing is ever gained without risk. Nothing.
Carl
You saying the outcome will not be good for any of us is your opinion only based upon factless feelings and emotions. Nobody knows what will be better for certain. That's why risk taking is called risk taking. It scares the life out of status quo lovers...but nothing is ever gained without risk. Nothing.
Carl
You also assume that a lot of the best and brightest working for DALPA will jump over. Many may because they believe in the DAL pilots, but some will not had that will no go unnoticed.
10-31-2010, 07:48 PM
#2085
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Recovering Airline Pilot
Posts: 459
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
It will need to be no such thing. A DPA will be a very large union. Plenty of expertise in all areas
10-31-2010, 07:53 PM
#2086
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by PCL_128
Well said. If the people here who are supporting the DPA were in the hot seat and actually had to make the tough decisions, they would also pick option 2, but since they're nothing more than keyboard commandos, they can fire shots from the sidelines and act like tough guys. The reality of actually having to lead in order to improve the lot of the piloting profession is quite different than sitting behind a keyboard and writing angry forum messages about ALPA.
Originally Posted by PCL_128
That's exactly right. There will be a net increase in pilot jobs under ALPA's proposed FT/DT rules, not a reduction.
Originally Posted by PCL_128
Cohen, Weiss & Simon is not a law firm of professional negotiators. They are litigators, scope experts, DFR experts, etc. ALPA does, however, employ dozens of professional negotiators. The Director of Representation has been negotiating pilot contracts since 1979. That's all he does for a living. Good luck finding someone with more experience.
Originally Posted by PCL_128
Call your congressman and ask him if he knows who CAPA is. After he says "cap what?," ask him if he knows who ALPA is. He'll probably talk about how he just spoke with ALPA recently on one issue or another. CAPA is a nobody in DC. They always will be. The way they conduct business ties their hands too much to ever be effective. That won't change, regardless of whether the DAL pilots were to join.
Originally Posted by PCL_128
They aren't "assimilated," Carl, they become educated on what's actually going on, what the law is, what the case law is, what the bargaining history is, etc. After they get all of the facts (because they were too lazy to do so before running for office), they finally realize that their union was right all along, and they start supporting it rather than throwing grenades from the sidelines. I know, because I was one of those guys years ago before I ran for office the first time. You learn quickly.
Originally Posted by PCL_128
Sorry, but that's false. The APA signed a services agreement with ALPA to pay ALPA for services to assist them in their negotiations.
Carl
10-31-2010, 07:59 PM
#2087
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by slowplay
It's always fun to watch when the facts get in the way of your intemperate rants, Carl!
Oh, better check your integrity again, slick. I've published my portion of the PM. Where's the threat?
Oh, better check your integrity again, slick. I've published my portion of the PM. Where's the threat?
You threatened a fellow poster with exposure if he didn't stop posting negative things about ALPA. A truly shameful act from one of ALPA's true believers.
Carl
10-31-2010, 08:10 PM
#2088
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Funny.
Almost every guy outside of this board that complains about this or that mentions a person, not an organization. Most guys I talk to are pragmatic enough to realize that ALPA is not the one to blame. They freely admit that it was the pilots of DAL and NWA that voted for each and every concession.
Almost every guy outside of this board that complains about this or that mentions a person, not an organization. Most guys I talk to are pragmatic enough to realize that ALPA is not the one to blame. They freely admit that it was the pilots of DAL and NWA that voted for each and every concession.
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Carl;
Who do you think that APA elected a new head that is more pragmatic?
Who do you think that APA elected a new head that is more pragmatic?
Carl
10-31-2010, 08:19 PM
#2089
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
You've lied about what you posted via PM. You're the only one that gets to repost that info, the recipient does not. With regard to intemperate rants, can't you find your own words instead of stealing my stuff?
You threatened a fellow poster with exposure if he didn't stop posting negative things about ALPA. A truly shameful act from one of ALPA's true believers.
You threatened a fellow poster with exposure if he didn't stop posting negative things about ALPA. A truly shameful act from one of ALPA's true believers.
I reposted the PM. You got something to back up, or just more groundskeeper fantasy and hot air? I know you like Cinderella stories...and poetry.
Maybe it's time for you to move the liquor bottle farther away from the keyboard.
pssst: Hey Carl, it's Halloween night. Did you get some more rocks in your trick or treat bag?
BOO!
In your world, I'm sure somebody is out to unmask your identity. In my world I couldn't care much less.
10-31-2010, 08:20 PM
#2090
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Recovering Airline Pilot
Posts: 459
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
CAPA is showing the way of how it should be done. Clearly stand up for what is right, and not surrendering before things begin. ALPA could learn a lesson if they weren't so hopelessly arrogant.
Factless feelings and emotions only. You have no idea whatsoever. And it should have nothing to do with a FATIGUE NPRM anyway.
It will be difficult to find a firm more afraid of litigation, and a stronger proponent of surrender in order to "live and fight another day."
Factless feelings and emotions on your part.
No, others resign in disgust when they see the self serving bureaucracy that is ALPA national. Others believe in bureaucracy and feel they've finally found their home.
It's an agreement between APA and ALPA to cooperate instead of compete. ALPA will now have the same access to the decades of experience from APA. It is NOT APA coming to ALPA for help on how to negotiate their contract.
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