Delta Pilots Association
#6321
Pineapple Guy obviously hasn't read the Court Transcript.
#6322
ALPA Continues to Fail to Protect Safety and Pilot Jobs
Under the long contested FAA Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM) regarding changes to existing Flight Time and Duty Time regulations, a provision currently exists that will allow an increase in daily flight time from 8 hours to 10 hours during the departure times of 07:00 and 12:59.
ALPA has suggested in past documents to the FAA that an increase to 9 hours is appropriate even though ALPA is fully aware that this increase will be advantageous to the company and detrimental to pilot jobs. Read the following quote from ALPA to the FAA under Docket No. FAA-2009-1093, Notice No. 10-11:
"Likewise, the majority view was that the maximum limit should be 9 hours for the 0700-1259 time period, which is a 12.5 percent increase when compared to the current rule. Even if certificate holders have to “buffer” schedules, they will be in no worse position than they are today because of the changed limits. In most instances, they will receive a distinct advantage with the increased flight limits."
Unfortunately, for all Delta Pilots, the 9 hour suggestion was ignored and increased to 10 hours, a 25% increase to the current rules! This increase will have a huge impact on trans-Atlantic flying and associated staffing. If passed, it will no longer be necessary to staff most European flying with three pilots. Two pilots crossing the Atlantic without a break is a safety issue that ALPA is not resisting and even supporting! You may have read multiple "Calls to Action" by ALPA asking you to contact your Senators and demand support for this damaging change. The ensuing loss of jobs in the categories that do this type of flying routinely will certainly affect a majority of the Delta seniority list. While other changes to the regulations may mitigate the loss of jobs overall, ALPA has effectively ensured that there will be no growth in those categories instead. In the meantime, line pilots and the travelling public will be subjected to the effects of fatigue caused by a lack of rest breaks during a 10 hour leg!
How ALPA can justify this reduction in Safety and pilot jobs is incomprehensible. CAPA (The Coalition of Airline Pilots Associations) figured out this problem and made a statement that all Delta pilots would benefit from.
DPA recommends that all Delta Pilots participate in the Call to Action. In your letter to your representative, demand that the daily flight time remain at 8 hours for two man crews for the sake of safety and the travelling public. Explain that changing this particular rule is detrimental to safety in every way.
If you don't take action on this important issue, you will find yourself flying up to 10 hours across the ocean without a rest break and possibly even losing your position in your current category as staffing reductions occur! Don't let ALPA fail to represent your safety interests and career progression once again. It is clear that ALPA is working with management again without regard for its members' well being.
Under the long contested FAA Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM) regarding changes to existing Flight Time and Duty Time regulations, a provision currently exists that will allow an increase in daily flight time from 8 hours to 10 hours during the departure times of 07:00 and 12:59.
ALPA has suggested in past documents to the FAA that an increase to 9 hours is appropriate even though ALPA is fully aware that this increase will be advantageous to the company and detrimental to pilot jobs. Read the following quote from ALPA to the FAA under Docket No. FAA-2009-1093, Notice No. 10-11:
"Likewise, the majority view was that the maximum limit should be 9 hours for the 0700-1259 time period, which is a 12.5 percent increase when compared to the current rule. Even if certificate holders have to “buffer” schedules, they will be in no worse position than they are today because of the changed limits. In most instances, they will receive a distinct advantage with the increased flight limits."
Unfortunately, for all Delta Pilots, the 9 hour suggestion was ignored and increased to 10 hours, a 25% increase to the current rules! This increase will have a huge impact on trans-Atlantic flying and associated staffing. If passed, it will no longer be necessary to staff most European flying with three pilots. Two pilots crossing the Atlantic without a break is a safety issue that ALPA is not resisting and even supporting! You may have read multiple "Calls to Action" by ALPA asking you to contact your Senators and demand support for this damaging change. The ensuing loss of jobs in the categories that do this type of flying routinely will certainly affect a majority of the Delta seniority list. While other changes to the regulations may mitigate the loss of jobs overall, ALPA has effectively ensured that there will be no growth in those categories instead. In the meantime, line pilots and the travelling public will be subjected to the effects of fatigue caused by a lack of rest breaks during a 10 hour leg!
How ALPA can justify this reduction in Safety and pilot jobs is incomprehensible. CAPA (The Coalition of Airline Pilots Associations) figured out this problem and made a statement that all Delta pilots would benefit from.
DPA recommends that all Delta Pilots participate in the Call to Action. In your letter to your representative, demand that the daily flight time remain at 8 hours for two man crews for the sake of safety and the travelling public. Explain that changing this particular rule is detrimental to safety in every way.
If you don't take action on this important issue, you will find yourself flying up to 10 hours across the ocean without a rest break and possibly even losing your position in your current category as staffing reductions occur! Don't let ALPA fail to represent your safety interests and career progression once again. It is clear that ALPA is working with management again without regard for its members' well being.
#6323
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
and this is the statement:
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#6324
The final ruling is not out no matter what they are saying on the DALPA forums. ALPA suggest nine hrs, and if they go with ten, it is going to be one very long day.....
I do see a lot of kickback to a ten hour day as well.
I also agree that with a 10 hr day, they could find a way to do a lot of the JFK to Europe Ops two man with a 48 (36+ hr) hr sit in Europe to reset your clock going Westbound. It could have the potential to cut about 150 FO slots on the ER up there. The push is that with these rules there is little room for three man crews with the duty day limits. Places like IST and SVO would be four man.
It really is all conjecture until the final ruling, FAR 117 is made public.
I do see a lot of kickback to a ten hour day as well.
I also agree that with a 10 hr day, they could find a way to do a lot of the JFK to Europe Ops two man with a 48 (36+ hr) hr sit in Europe to reset your clock going Westbound. It could have the potential to cut about 150 FO slots on the ER up there. The push is that with these rules there is little room for three man crews with the duty day limits. Places like IST and SVO would be four man.
It really is all conjecture until the final ruling, FAR 117 is made public.
Last edited by acl65pilot; 09-13-2011 at 04:56 PM.
#6325
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
From: 73 lifer
ALPA Continues to Fail to Protect Safety and Pilot Jobs
This increase will have a huge impact on trans-Atlantic flying and associated staffing. If passed, it will no longer be necessary to staff most European flying with three pilots. Two pilots crossing the Atlantic without a break is a safety issue that ALPA is not resisting and even supporting! You may have read multiple "Calls to Action" by ALPA asking you to contact your Senators and demand support for this damaging change. The ensuing loss of jobs in the categories that do this type of flying routinely will certainly affect a majority of the Delta seniority list. While other changes to the regulations may mitigate the loss of jobs overall, ALPA has effectively ensured that there will be no growth in those categories instead. In the meantime, line pilots and the travelling public will be subjected to the effects of fatigue caused by a lack of rest breaks during a 10 hour leg!
If you don't take action on this important issue, you will find yourself flying up to 10 hours across the ocean without a rest break and possibly even losing your position in your current category as staffing reductions occur!
This increase will have a huge impact on trans-Atlantic flying and associated staffing. If passed, it will no longer be necessary to staff most European flying with three pilots. Two pilots crossing the Atlantic without a break is a safety issue that ALPA is not resisting and even supporting! You may have read multiple "Calls to Action" by ALPA asking you to contact your Senators and demand support for this damaging change. The ensuing loss of jobs in the categories that do this type of flying routinely will certainly affect a majority of the Delta seniority list. While other changes to the regulations may mitigate the loss of jobs overall, ALPA has effectively ensured that there will be no growth in those categories instead. In the meantime, line pilots and the travelling public will be subjected to the effects of fatigue caused by a lack of rest breaks during a 10 hour leg!
If you don't take action on this important issue, you will find yourself flying up to 10 hours across the ocean without a rest break and possibly even losing your position in your current category as staffing reductions occur!
Here is the PDF link to the fish wrap from November 2010. It's on page 28 - 31 with an actual Delta JFK MAD trip showing that augmentation is required. I see no reason to build credit time for a guy to sit and get acclimatized for days on end. That makes no sense.
No augment is required going east now, but one is always required returning with the current rules and the new rules. Since the pilot has to get to Europe he has to operate or DH. It costs the same and Delta sends him as a relief pilots right now. In case of further shenanigans the type of rest seat further restricts augments.
Hats off to the LEC presentation I saw on this with a heavy slide deck. More here ALPA FTDT This is just careless information from the DPA that serves no purpose.
Last edited by zoomiezombie; 09-13-2011 at 05:06 PM. Reason: Saw ACL add info
#6326
This is completely false and an often misunderstood part of the new rules, or so says the ALPA magazine and IFALPA President.
Here is the PDF link to the fish wrap from November 2010. It's on page 28 - 31 with an actual Delta JFK MAD trip showing that augmentation is required.
No augment is required going east now, but one is always required returning with the current rules and the new rules. Since the pilot has to get to Europe he has to operate or DH. It costs the same and Delta sends him as a relief pilots right now. In case of further shenanigans the type of rest seat further restricts augments.
Hats off to the LEC presentation I saw on this with a heavy slide deck. More here ALPA FTDT
Here is the PDF link to the fish wrap from November 2010. It's on page 28 - 31 with an actual Delta JFK MAD trip showing that augmentation is required.
No augment is required going east now, but one is always required returning with the current rules and the new rules. Since the pilot has to get to Europe he has to operate or DH. It costs the same and Delta sends him as a relief pilots right now. In case of further shenanigans the type of rest seat further restricts augments.
Hats off to the LEC presentation I saw on this with a heavy slide deck. More here ALPA FTDT
That is one thing that is important. The new rigs wrt to the rest seats make more of the ER and 75ER seats a class one seat. I would suspect the lie flat would be at best a class II seat and as a result the total duty day gets further limited. I would be very pleased if they came out with this the way we proposed.
#6327
Don't like the anti union rhetoric of the website, yet, the salaries are eye watering
http://unionfacts.com/local/employees/179/ALPA//
http://unionfacts.com/local/employees/179/ALPA//
Last edited by TheManager; 09-14-2011 at 07:35 AM.
#6328
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 646
Likes: 0
From: erb
Don't like the anti union rhetoric of the website, yet, the salaries are eye watering
Union Facts: Air Line Pilots Leaders, Employees, and Salaries
Union Facts: Air Line Pilots Leaders, Employees, and Salaries


#6329
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
That's about what that job pays elsewhere.
Regulating the office supplies and paying the bills is a coveted position. The HSIC in the Secretarial world.
Regulating the office supplies and paying the bills is a coveted position. The HSIC in the Secretarial world.
#6330
Don't like the anti union rhetoric of the website, yet, the salaries are eye watering
Union Facts: Air Line Pilots Leaders, Employees, and Salaries
Union Facts: Air Line Pilots Leaders, Employees, and Salaries
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