That is why I say it is a people issue.

 

The other 70% that we do NOT get back to run our local operation is NOT all used for Delta pilots. Much of it is used to support the ALPA unions of our direct regional competitors. The dues money of Delta pilots is used to support the non-viable unions of our regional competitors. That's a fact.

Carl

 

Totally wrong. The process we MUST go through before we even DEVELOP our opener on Section 1 is long and multi-faceted. To call this "cosmetic" and offering "no material change" in how we negotiate scope "at the end of the day" is your opinion only. This new process that we MUST go through is a fact - your opinion of its importance is...well, your opinion.

I've got to complement you here man. At least you're an ALPA apologist that understands that we fund our direct regional competitor's unions with our dues money. But again, your opinion of the "unity" and "solidarity" it creates is...well, your opinion. And if we have to purchase this unity and solidarity by giving OUR money to OTHER UNIONS, then you don't have either one.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

That can only be because you've not lifted a finger to meet the people DPA would offer up for a negotiating team. I say "offer up" because all of those positions would have to be filled by people voted in by the pilot group.

It can be done in a snap! There are a ton of people on the Delta seniority list that are talented and capable and ready to serve. They just don't want to serve a union that is behaving like Hoffa's teamsters...but only behaving that way amongst its own members with whom they disagree.

And as we approach crunch time (voting on a TA), if DPA has not yet been voted in, DPA will undoubtedly go on pause status. But until then, DPA will continue to grow, and hold that gun to the heads of our MEC during this Section 6. That's exactly how it should be.

Carl

 

I've come to understand that people are using the word "unity" to mean whatever they want it to mean in order to validate their argument. We're down to completely re-defining words now.

And in that vain, I'd like to play too! The DPA is all about patriotism. Anyone who doesn't believe in the DPA is simply unpatriotic. DPA = Patriotism. Now who among us wishes to declare themselves unpatriotic?!

Carl

 

DPA has indeed thought hard about the next several moves on the chessboard. Now let's contrast that with our current Scope language. Written by the best and the brightest lawyers that ALPA could find. Yet just a few short years later, that language is so weak that ALPA says they cannot defend it. As a junior pilot, why you would want to stay with such an incompetent vendor is just beyond me.

THAT is the question that each of us must answer in the quiet moments of our own logical minds. I just wish ALPA was leaving it at that. Instead they've embarked on the Saul Alinsky approach to the DPA (attempt to isolate, denigrate, then destroy). And again, it might be fun to watch if ALPA actually used some of these tough techniques against management, but it's only used against ALPA members who don't tow the ALPA line. With management, it's only sitting nicely on their laps and wagging their tails when prompted.

And again, how you could be for the team that wrote our current nearly worthless Scope language is shocking.

Carl

 

Carl

 

And all you can do is speculate what those consequences might be. In the meantime, you totally ignore the performance of ALPA that is right in front of you. Your answer is to fix ALPA from within. I sure know what those consequences would be.

I see. Because you just make up a list of "unintended consequences"...that equals proof to you? Yikes. That is clearly just your opinion. And my opinion is that your naiveté is scary.

Agree. And since our current bargaining agent has shown nothing but immoral behavior and poor performance as of late, our one and best chance to get it right is an in-house union of ONLY Delta pilots representing ONLY Delta pilots.

Carl

 

It's not just the ALPA volunteers man. We've got people that regularly post here who are reps, and very high up folks in the MEC bureaucracy. And these people use those same inexcusable tactics against those of us who want to vote for the other guy.

ALPA could have killed DPA early on by simply behaving like a union interested in representing their members. But what they did to the TWA pilots, their own in-house union of clerical employees, and DPA supporters has shown many of us that ALPA only knows how to make one choice. The WRONG choice. With DPA, ALPA had such a great opportunity to return to its roots and really make us a bottom up organization. Instead they've done just the opposite by ignoring legal resolutions brought forth through our reps, and consolidating more power among the unelected MEC administrators. Wrong choice men...wrong choice!

Carl

 

Bar, what is your end goal here? You want ASA pilots (who do not fly exclusively for Delta Air Lines but also United) to be on the Delta pilot seniority list and represented by the Delta MEC, right?

Out of fear that if we don't do that ASA/ExpressJet/Skywest* will make an end-around the contract and go to the company and demand to scope Delta pilots and take flying for their own, as in aircraft larger than what they're permitted to currently fly per our existing PWA?
What's wrong with ending ASA's relationship with Delta completely? No more ASA flying as Delta Connection and replace ASA's service to Delta with Delta pilots and Delta aircraft and Delta pilots fight for Delta pilots - only? As in take care of your own family before you worry about your neighbors? Or is that me being bigoted again? Because the way I see it, end DCI, hire here. It's simple and clean.

And how would this end-around work? Section 1C applies if you try to operate non permitted aircraft. ASA could claim the right to be the exclusive DCI but their company's contract with Delta probably doesn't allow that. So they could claim they could scope us out of aircraft that are non-permitted but then Section 1C does kick in. Not sure I'm following how they accomplish this end-around?

Because how does this work?


And isn't ASA merging with ExpressJet, so there will be 1 seniority list right? ExpressJet doesn't fly for Delta. How do you determine who is a Delta pilot and represented by the Delta MEC right along with Delta mainline pilots? So two different unions for the same pilot group?

 

Delta pilots perform all Delta flying, represented by our Bargaining Agent. For an opener, Southwest's scope section looks good.

How we get there is up to all of us and people smarter than me. It would be good if our pilot group could understand what real unity is and why it is important for our growth, bargaining leverage, promotional opportunities, and job protection.

I come back to the ASA example because it historically demonstrates the failure of the DPA's "conflict of interest" logic. The example illustrates ALPA national's conduct to defend the rights of Delta pilots to bargain exclusively.

Tim Caplinger was part of the Administration that outsourced "our" flying. If anything, he's taken the old guard's justifications for outsourcing (not our fault, the RJ guys made us do it) and magnified them into this "conflict of interest" reason for dumping ALPA.

I post the history of our scope negotiations in the hope people will understand how we got here and why the old solutions will not work.

The solution to our scope problems will begin when we decide that we put a priority on Delta pilots performing Delta flying. We need to understand why this is important, beyond the personal implications for pay and promotion. Pilots need to understand why unity is critical to our profession.

Many here say, "mergers are management's choice." I'd agree as long as we held management's feet to the fire and said "no more outsourcing" and they either had to grow organically, or merge.

Obviously our Corporation and (to a much lesser extent) we benefit from code share / JV. ALPA's got some good folks on those issues and I'm not saying I know better than they do. What I do know is that we need to approach this issue from the perspective of unity.