ACL;

A comment followed by a couple of questions.

DCIs have sued DALPA/ALPA and now get to have some level of input in major airline scope changes. They SUED, they did not try to get their way thru the well founded ALPA processes...They SUED.

What benefit do the Delta pilots get from (partially) funding the representation of the (ALPA) DCI??? (Remember the DALPA leadership recently cut loose Compass)

How does an inhouse union diminish in house unity?

How does being a part of ALPA enhance industry wide unity?

My answers are simply: None, it doesnt, it doesnt.

 

.............

 

Fly for Hire's post is correct. I only agree and add to his point(s) the following:

As of today ALPA is the EXCLUSIVE Bargaining Agent with Delta Air Lines Management. The chain of command is this:


If ALPA is removed from the picture, the exclusive relationship will no longer exist. With the DPA, it is possible that ALPA could make an representational end run around the DPA. Consider this alternative flow chart.

What folks forget about "unity" is that real unity is structural, not emotional. Our unity comes from being one bargaining agent who represents the entire productive capacity of the Company.

 

Scambo,

I'll on speak to the perspective of ASA pilots who flew for an airline which had its own marketing, code & tickets. An airline which established itself and flew for Eastern at one point.

ASA's flying was purchased by Delta Air Lines. ASA's pilots were stripped of "their" code. Their flying was taken away and flown by their new owners (mostly outsourced of course). The traditional solution to this problem was a merger, which we all know they tried to get and were denied. Then they tried to negotiate scope which would cover Delta's left over flying. That was denied. They appealed to ALPA National and received a response that they could not negotiate any scope over "Delta" flying and would never be allowed to even talk to Delta management. Appeals were made to every level of ALPA. Finally, they sued (or joined an action begun at Comair).

What you saw WAS ALPA PROTECTING DELTA PILOTS' RIGHTS TO BARGAIN EXCLUSIVELY. ALPA went to battle for Delta pilots and won (as pointed our above).

Our profession faces some existent threats, cabotage, multi-crew licensing, even carbon caps, which can best be addressed by a unified political voice. As a junior member of this profession, I think we NEED ALPA ... your job is worth more than mine. You have even a more compelling reason than I to support this force that protects your job.

 

Let me see if I have this straight:

Sooooo as long as ALPA is on the property representing DAL pilots AND all the DCI carriers, we can keep them (DCI) in check.. without DALPA, they can end run around us because ALPA (-DALPA) will still be strong enough to short circuit the representation of the DELTA pilot's union (whether it be DPA or MSG, or MSNBC) and in that way somehow trash OUR contract and it's protections???? Is THAT what this says?

 

ALPA or DALPA went to bat for the DELTA pilots? Please be very very specific.

 

TSquare,

Yes, ALPA denied ASA & Comair pilots an ability to bargain with Delta management and fought them in Court. (D-ALPA wasn't even a party to the litigation)

Yes, without ALPA blocking, a regional airline unit could (conceivably) make an end run around us since they would be able to negotiate with Delta management. Some say our contract would protects us, but during self help the Company could sign deals with other pilots. Those deals, signed prior to our contract, would create both bargaining leverage for the company and a very real threat of alter ego replacement.

There is also the question of our "left over flying." ALPA has prevented DCI carriers from establishing scope which controls our outsourced flying.

If the DPA thinks it can recover our flying, they need to think through the next several moves of the Chess game and realize that they'll be playing defense too, not just offense.

As I watch our numbers, I am not pleased with Delta's stagnation as our competitors (and our so called friends within SkyTeam) grow. I am sure the Delta MEC is fighting for us. When I think of the DPA replacing ALPA, I have to resolve the question, "can the DPA protect my job more effectively?" Thus far, the answer is no.

On the scope front, we're in a fight for our lives. I've got to pick the experienced team which provides the best, structural, chance of success.

 

What you say here is absolutely no different than saying that DAL pilots cannot bargain with UAL management. THey are two separate companies as are Comair and Delta. This is a non issue IMHO. But interestingly enough, you raise precisely the conflict of interest issue that has national. How can they serve 2 masters? They cannot. period. I'm not saying that DPA is remotely a real answer, but your argument isn't convincing me of much at this point.

And... I can say this too: If ALPA national tries in any shape manner or form to delegate what we can and cannot do when bargaining with our own company, I will personally call LM and tell him to KMA. The ALPAoids have been steadfast in their denial that national has no agenda wrt it's constituent airlines. I think you pretty much shot that horse square in the forehead.

 

I read that post on the forum with regards to ALPA financing. In my mind it creates a big credibility gap for DPA. All along they've been saying we only get a third of our dues back, but that appears to be not true at all.

 

And.....

VVVV This... VVVV

.....doesn't concern me in the least.