Flytolive

Carl,

Then you can only speak for yourself, right?

I thought you said, 'only individual pilots can speak to why' or if they would do things?



Again, hilarious. CAPA is an absolute joke on the Hill. ALPA speaks for pilots, period. Hope is about all CAPA has and they have fooled many an idealistic pilot.

Alan Shore

You see the fact that DPA came within a few percentage points of being able to qualify for a vote as tantamount that ALPA would have been decertified? It's that twisted view that makes some of your comments sound like party propaganda.

True on the first count. Delta pilots control DALPA. ALPA serves us in the manner determined by our reps and those of other ALPA pilot groups.

Totally false on the second count.

Total lack of understanding (or deliberate misstatement?) of what went on during the ARC discussions that went on prior to the regulation that is FAR 117.

ICAO (not A4A) came up with the science based approach. ALPA and A4A were on opposite sides of the discussion of what the FAR should ultimately be, with ALPA wanting even stricter limits than the science called for and A4A wanting fewer.

In the end, neither side got everything they wanted. A4A got an extra hour of block time per duty period, but lost the ability to extend that indefinitely under IROPS. ALPA got shorter duty days with limited extensions requiring PIC concurrence in all cases, and longer rest that is not reducible.

My understanding is that, at Delta, FAR 117 has increased credit time (i.e., required staffing) by a significant amount (not sure what the exact number is). If it takes more pilots to fly the same amount under FAR 117, then each pilot must be flying less under FAR 117. Hardly a "total fail and give" in my book.

Carl, you clearly have a lot of passion for this pilot group and its profession, and you bring up some very good points about what can and should be better. You don't need to be grasping at straws to find a boogeyman around every corner. When you do, it undermines your credibility and lessens your effectiveness at changing the things that truly need our attention.

bigbusdriver

No way. CAPA hamstrung the system by demanding that a separate and extremely expensive biometric system be put in place. Brake chatter might be able to speak on that more. ALPA (Moak) put in place an separate but similar system using CASS as one of his campaign promises. He had that done within months of him saying he would do it. It's an ALPA registered trademark. If there's one thing Moak said he would do and get done faster than the previous guys, who took 10 years to have a test in Baltimore, then KCM is something I use everyday and consider a job well done.

Check Essential

I wouldn't be too smug.

DPA failed because Caplinger had poor judgment and suspect motives and wouldn't step aside.
Otherwise ALPA might be history right now.

Reroute

Get a different talking point.

KCM webpage:

“The KCM program was developed by Airlines for America (A4A) and the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA), with approval and support of the TSA.”

Home

Reroute

That's your opinion, another might be that DPA was recognized by the Delta pilots as a bad idea.

DAL 88 Driver

Having no intention or plan to restore our profession has been recognized by thousands of Delta pilots as a bad idea. Without that recognition, DPA would have never made a go of it for even a year, and certainly not for several years and thousands of cards.

Like it or not, Reroute, Moak and the regime he established here is responsible for DPA having existed in the first place. But rather than address the source of the problem, you continue to ignore the input of thousands of pilots and you continue to accept slightly better than bankruptcy level compensation as the new norm.

Carl Spackler

Most of that is just opinion, to which you're certainly entitled. Any more back and forth with you is waste. APC members have both of our views and will decide what's fact and what's shilling.

ALPA fought the 1500 hour rule every step of the way and is still fighting it today. That is a fact. ALPA is still today pushing for ways to reduce the 1500 hour requirement. Without the FAA's insistence, there would be no 1500 hour rule.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Uh, yes...that's why I posted this:

Since your whole goal is to get the moderators to close this thread like you've successfully done on 21 other threads, I won't respond to flamebait and shilling. APC members know our views and will decide who's shilling and who's not.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Again Alan, you're entitled to your opinions but not your own facts. Any more back and forth with you on this is just more moot court.

Regarding my credibility Alan, you should first understand that yours is shot here. You initially tried to portray yourself as an honest broker just looking for facts, but most see you now as someone who's job here is to defend ALPA to your last breath. Your concern about my credibility would be more meaningful coming from someone who had credibility.

Carl