Delta Pilots Association
#9481
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,785
Then you can only speak for yourself, right?
Again, hilarious. CAPA is an absolute joke on the Hill. ALPA speaks for pilots, period. Hope is about all CAPA has and they have fooled many an idealistic pilot.
#9482
True on the first count. Delta pilots control DALPA. ALPA serves us in the manner determined by our reps and those of other ALPA pilot groups.
Totally false on the second count.
ICAO (not A4A) came up with the science based approach. ALPA and A4A were on opposite sides of the discussion of what the FAR should ultimately be, with ALPA wanting even stricter limits than the science called for and A4A wanting fewer.
In the end, neither side got everything they wanted. A4A got an extra hour of block time per duty period, but lost the ability to extend that indefinitely under IROPS. ALPA got shorter duty days with limited extensions requiring PIC concurrence in all cases, and longer rest that is not reducible.
My understanding is that, at Delta, FAR 117 has increased credit time (i.e., required staffing) by a significant amount (not sure what the exact number is). If it takes more pilots to fly the same amount under FAR 117, then each pilot must be flying less under FAR 117. Hardly a "total fail and give" in my book.
Carl, you clearly have a lot of passion for this pilot group and its profession, and you bring up some very good points about what can and should be better. You don't need to be grasping at straws to find a boogeyman around every corner. When you do, it undermines your credibility and lessens your effectiveness at changing the things that truly need our attention.
#9483
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 273
No way. CAPA hamstrung the system by demanding that a separate and extremely expensive biometric system be put in place. Brake chatter might be able to speak on that more. ALPA (Moak) put in place an separate but similar system using CASS as one of his campaign promises. He had that done within months of him saying he would do it. It's an ALPA registered trademark. If there's one thing Moak said he would do and get done faster than the previous guys, who took 10 years to have a test in Baltimore, then KCM is something I use everyday and consider a job well done.
#9484
#9486
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 593
#9487
Like it or not, Reroute, Moak and the regime he established here is responsible for DPA having existed in the first place. But rather than address the source of the problem, you continue to ignore the input of thousands of pilots and you continue to accept slightly better than bankruptcy level compensation as the new norm.
#9488
Nonsense. You partner with your enemies when your interests align like they do against government subsidized foreign airlines and NAI. To not do so would be gross dereliction of duty. The other thing some pilots need to realize is that we are totally outgunned financially and politically against management. We need to pick our battles very carefully.
That is one way of looking at it. The other is that it never would have happened without ALPA coming to the table and getting it done. Moak deserves most of the credit for making it FINALLY happen.
The first point is a matter of opinion and the second is not. Sorry, but the big three contracts and even SWA's have never been less varied and with consolidation their is nobody dragging us down. Fortunately, the most profitable airline's pilot group will be leading the next round of bargaining.
What is not debatable is that A4A is not happy with the regs because it requires more pilots.
That is one way of looking at it. The other is that it never would have happened without ALPA coming to the table and getting it done. Moak deserves most of the credit for making it FINALLY happen.
The first point is a matter of opinion and the second is not. Sorry, but the big three contracts and even SWA's have never been less varied and with consolidation their is nobody dragging us down. Fortunately, the most profitable airline's pilot group will be leading the next round of bargaining.
What is not debatable is that A4A is not happy with the regs because it requires more pilots.
Carl
#9489
Carl
#9490
You see the fact that DPA came within a few percentage points of being able to qualify for a vote as tantamount that ALPA would have been decertified? It's that twisted view that makes some of your comments sound like party propaganda.
True on the first count. Delta pilots control DALPA. ALPA serves us in the manner determined by our reps and those of other ALPA pilot groups.
Totally false on the second count.
Total lack of understanding (or deliberate misstatement?) of what went on during the ARC discussions that went on prior to thje regulation that is FAR 117.
ICAO (not A4A) came up with the science based approach. ALPA and A4A were on opposite sides of the discussion of what the FAR should ultimately be, with ALPA wanting even stricter limits than the science called for and A4A wanting fewer.
In the end, neither side got everything they wanted. A4A got an extra hour of block time per duty period, but lost the ability to extend that indefinitely under IROPS. ALPA got shorter duty days with limited extensions requiring PIC concurrence in all cases, and longer rest that is not reducible.
My understanding is that, at Delta, FAR 117 has increased credit time (i.e., required staffing) by a significant amount (not sure what the exact number is). If it takes more pilots to fly the same amount under FAR 117, then each pilot must be flying less under FAR 117. Hardly a "total fail and give" in my book.
Carl, you clearly have a lot of passion for this pilot group and its profession, and you bring up some very good points about what can and should be better. You don't need to be grasping at straws to find a boogeyman around every corner. When you do, it undermines your credibility and lessens your effectiveness at changing the things that truly need our attention.
True on the first count. Delta pilots control DALPA. ALPA serves us in the manner determined by our reps and those of other ALPA pilot groups.
Totally false on the second count.
Total lack of understanding (or deliberate misstatement?) of what went on during the ARC discussions that went on prior to thje regulation that is FAR 117.
ICAO (not A4A) came up with the science based approach. ALPA and A4A were on opposite sides of the discussion of what the FAR should ultimately be, with ALPA wanting even stricter limits than the science called for and A4A wanting fewer.
In the end, neither side got everything they wanted. A4A got an extra hour of block time per duty period, but lost the ability to extend that indefinitely under IROPS. ALPA got shorter duty days with limited extensions requiring PIC concurrence in all cases, and longer rest that is not reducible.
My understanding is that, at Delta, FAR 117 has increased credit time (i.e., required staffing) by a significant amount (not sure what the exact number is). If it takes more pilots to fly the same amount under FAR 117, then each pilot must be flying less under FAR 117. Hardly a "total fail and give" in my book.
Carl, you clearly have a lot of passion for this pilot group and its profession, and you bring up some very good points about what can and should be better. You don't need to be grasping at straws to find a boogeyman around every corner. When you do, it undermines your credibility and lessens your effectiveness at changing the things that truly need our attention.
Regarding my credibility Alan, you should first understand that yours is shot here. You initially tried to portray yourself as an honest broker just looking for facts, but most see you now as someone who's job here is to defend ALPA to your last breath. Your concern about my credibility would be more meaningful coming from someone who had credibility.
Carl
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