The AirTran Pilots' Windfall and SLI
01-07-2011 | 03:07 PM
#212
Eats shoots and leaves...
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 849
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From: Didactic Synthetic Aviation Experience Provider
01-07-2011 | 04:39 PM
#213
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 224
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Keeping it polite. Please don't tell me when or where to speak. No union no person will ever inhibit my right to say what I feel and when I feel. My wife might slap me around if I deserve it but no you or anyone reading this. When I was in the Air Force I decided in my many hours of droning over vast tracks of wasteland, I decide one of the reasons I was doing it was to protect the freedoms of those back home so we did not have to live in a similar wasteland. I am not speaking to the SLI or anything else. I am currious why these ideas are not considered. So please don't text me or email me. I see nothing out of line what I am asking.
If some arbitor thinks I represent anyone other than myself I will set him straight.
So to make you happy
DISCLAIMER!!!!
TO all arbitors who might read this; please understand I speak for no one at either AirTran or Southwest Airlines or to their or my career expectations. My views and questions are my own and I will defend with my life as I have RCD73's by hanging it out there overseas to support those freedoms.
So I speak for myself, and will continue to do so
Enough Said
If some arbitor thinks I represent anyone other than myself I will set him straight.
So to make you happy
DISCLAIMER!!!!
TO all arbitors who might read this; please understand I speak for no one at either AirTran or Southwest Airlines or to their or my career expectations. My views and questions are my own and I will defend with my life as I have RCD73's by hanging it out there overseas to support those freedoms.
So I speak for myself, and will continue to do so
Enough Said
Ive heard your AF stories. Everybody has. You may be surprised by how many of us have served
Did you miss the lecture on loyalty, discretion and trust ?If you don't like your unions advice then you have a choice to make. If you go to FEDEX you'll find they will give you the same advice. So will SWAPA.
You're actually embarrassing yourself and the service by bringing it up in this context.
Last edited by RCD73; 01-07-2011 at 04:56 PM.
01-07-2011 | 07:12 PM
#214
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
fishfreighter,
just to be sure, I didn't mean a complete staple, just one below any current SW captain. so you do mean one up to 1993? so there will be SW captains who will be junior to some Airtran Captains when said and done? also, the big raise doesn't happen until TA passes and deal is closed? or just after TA passes? what if the perceived loser ( you know one party won't be happy) protests arbitrator? does that mean it could drag out and cost Airtran guys a lot of cash since delay to TA wouldn't kick in BIG raise? just trying to understand the whole picture
just to be sure, I didn't mean a complete staple, just one below any current SW captain. so you do mean one up to 1993? so there will be SW captains who will be junior to some Airtran Captains when said and done? also, the big raise doesn't happen until TA passes and deal is closed? or just after TA passes? what if the perceived loser ( you know one party won't be happy) protests arbitrator? does that mean it could drag out and cost Airtran guys a lot of cash since delay to TA wouldn't kick in BIG raise? just trying to understand the whole picture
01-08-2011 | 07:31 AM
#215
Banned
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,480
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1. No bump, no flush. Everyone stays in their current seat until they voluntarily bid out of their current seat. That means no AAI pilots will be going to OAK and no SWA pilots to ATL until there's a vacancy and they have the seniority to hold it under the eventual SLI agreement.
2. Air Tran/Valujet didn't turn a wheel until October 1993. Therefore ALL SWA pilots with a seniority date before October 1993 should be placed on the list in their current seniority order.
3. Then calculate a ration based on the number of pilots to be placed on the list. Just for example, if there are 4500 post-1993 SWA pilots the ratio would be 3:1. So the first AAI pilot would be listed followed by 3 SWA pilots.
That's the fairest way to merge the list, IMHO. It is the same method I'd recommend if my company had merged with AAI.
01-09-2011 | 08:43 AM
#216
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 879
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Pure windfalls are not an issue with regards to seniority integrations. Where you have a problem is when you have a windfall for one group at the expense of the other. Anything that produces upgrades at one carrier and downgrades at the other (in similar equipment) constitutes the latter. I would argue that putting all pre-1993 Southwest pilots ahead of the #1 seniority AirTran pilot is also in that category (big relative seniorty increase for those guys at the expense of a HUGE hit to the senior Air Tran guys). That's why integrations in the past tend to categorize into narrow body and wide body, and CA and FO. The only possible argument that Southwest has against AirTran is that the 717 falls into a different category than the 737, but given that the pay scales are the same for each, that might be a tough case to make to the arbitrator(s).
01-09-2011 | 03:34 PM
#217
On Reserve
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: SWA CA
Using the relative scenario, there are more than several captains at AAI that would be placed on our list at a seniority DOH that had them in high school. That is a windfall! If an "Original" SWA pilot has to be FO for an AAI lottery winner who has less longevity there will be a mutiny. I know that sounds bad but I am afraid it's going to be that way.
I think our unions will come up with a way to minimize this. That is my hope anyway.
I think our unions will come up with a way to minimize this. That is my hope anyway.
Last edited by LUVGuppy; 01-09-2011 at 03:34 PM. Reason: typo
01-09-2011 | 04:09 PM
#218
Banned
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,480
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That's why it won't happen. Seriously, you SWA guys need to relax. You also need to stop insisting on the staple because "our F/Os deserve it." That is also a windfall and won't happen either.
01-09-2011 | 04:11 PM
#219
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
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From: 767er Captain
Using the relative scenario, there are more than several captains at AAI that would be placed on our list at a seniority DOH that had them in high school. That is a windfall! If an "Original" SWA pilot has to be FO for an AAI lottery winner who has less longevity there will be a mutiny. I know that sounds bad but I am afraid it's going to be that way.
I think our unions will come up with a way to minimize this. That is my hope anyway.
I think our unions will come up with a way to minimize this. That is my hope anyway.
Mutiny? really? Do tell...
01-09-2011 | 04:49 PM
#220
On Reserve
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: SWA CA
What about it don't you understand? Well, maybe mutiny was a strong word, but I would bet any captain from AAI that is junior in longevity will get a real handful from the right seat. I am not saying it's right but it's reality. Excuse me if I am a bit terse but I had a 35 year old AAI CA tell he fully expected his relative position at SWA. He would have been hired at aged 16 to hold that position at SWA the regular way. He and I are the same age and were hired at our respective companies within a year of each other. All of the sudden he is ten years senior, because he went to the other airline. What is fair about that?
If it's not obvious, he really touched a nerve.
If it's not obvious, he really touched a nerve.
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