The AirTran Pilots' Windfall and SLI
01-06-2011 | 11:41 AM
#191
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From: KC135 IP
The ALPA and SWAPA unions will look out for their own as they should.
I am discussing no expectations. I am currious what the big deal is. If it is pay I am just offering some options to lessen the upset.
01-06-2011 | 11:46 AM
#192
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From: KC135 IP
OK Gottcha
Take a look at the pay tables on this website. Even if you (generously) use the new AAI pay (which is irrelevant after the snapshot date), a 6 year captain at AAI will come out ahead in more than 1 way as a 6 year FO at SWA.
Using the calculator on this site - a 6 year AAI captain is guaranteed 70x136=$9520 /mo. That is $114,240/ yr. A 6 year FO at SWA is guaranteed 78x132=$10,296 /mo. That is $123,552 /yr. If you only used 70 hrs/mo. for the SWA F/O, it would still be within about $300 /mo. (peanuts) but that wouldn't be accurate. In addition to earning an extra $9312 guaranteed $$'s per year, a 6 year AAI capt (now a 6 year SWA F/O) gains... 1) a much better schedule 2) more domiciles than they currently have to chose from 3) better company 4) better medical benefits 5) an extra week of vacation (I could be off on this but I think SWA gives an extra week of vacation). I would like to see how the discretionary flying compares between SWA and AAI as well.
If a junior AAI captain were to keep their seat they would earn a guarantee of $15,366 /mo. or $184,392 /yr. That is a GAIN of $70,152 /yr in addition to #'s 2,3,4, and possibly 5 above at a minimum. Of course we want to keep our seat position...because we all want to save the company some money - right?
Using the calculator on this site - a 6 year AAI captain is guaranteed 70x136=$9520 /mo. That is $114,240/ yr. A 6 year FO at SWA is guaranteed 78x132=$10,296 /mo. That is $123,552 /yr. If you only used 70 hrs/mo. for the SWA F/O, it would still be within about $300 /mo. (peanuts) but that wouldn't be accurate. In addition to earning an extra $9312 guaranteed $$'s per year, a 6 year AAI capt (now a 6 year SWA F/O) gains... 1) a much better schedule 2) more domiciles than they currently have to chose from 3) better company 4) better medical benefits 5) an extra week of vacation (I could be off on this but I think SWA gives an extra week of vacation). I would like to see how the discretionary flying compares between SWA and AAI as well.
If a junior AAI captain were to keep their seat they would earn a guarantee of $15,366 /mo. or $184,392 /yr. That is a GAIN of $70,152 /yr in addition to #'s 2,3,4, and possibly 5 above at a minimum. Of course we want to keep our seat position...because we all want to save the company some money - right?
OK I see where you coming from, I think there could be some compromise.
Well I was just currious if it was about power, pay, QOL or all the above.
Take Care
BN
01-06-2011 | 12:19 PM
#193
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Hey B-----
Tell you what. Email your posts to the MC and ask them what they think. I'm sure they'll let you know. Then they'll re instruct you to comply with the request to close your mouth and let them speak for you.
I'll email them for you if you like. That way they can contact you
01-06-2011 | 12:42 PM
#194
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If you're implying that an Arbitrator wouldn't consider their new contract to be relevant . . . . I think in terms of pay protection they most certainly would use 2010 rates, not 2001 rates- it wouldn't make sense to pay protect someone for less than they are already making.
Regardless, I don't think an Arbitrator (or three) will bump anyone out of their seat. If you expect that to happen, you are likely to be disappointed.
Last edited by MaxPowers; 01-06-2011 at 01:12 PM.
01-06-2011 | 01:58 PM
#195
Line Holder
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From: Bent Over
01-06-2011 | 03:22 PM
#196
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From: KC135 IP
You Sir Are a.....
Hey B-----
Tell you what. Email your posts to the MC and ask them what they think. I'm sure they'll let you know. Then they'll re instruct you to comply with the request to close your mouth and let them speak for you.
I'll email them for you if you like. That way they can contact you
Tell you what. Email your posts to the MC and ask them what they think. I'm sure they'll let you know. Then they'll re instruct you to comply with the request to close your mouth and let them speak for you.
I'll email them for you if you like. That way they can contact you
Keeping it polite. Please don't tell me when or where to speak. No union no person will ever inhibit my right to say what I feel and when I feel. My wife might slap me around if I deserve it but no you or anyone reading this. When I was in the Air Force I decided in my many hours of droning over vast tracks of wasteland, I decide one of the reasons I was doing it was to protect the freedoms of those back home so we did not have to live in a similar wasteland. I am not speaking to the SLI or anything else. I am currious why these ideas are not considered. So please don't text me or email me. I see nothing out of line what I am asking.
If some arbitor thinks I represent anyone other than myself I will set him straight.
So to make you happy
DISCLAIMER!!!!
TO all arbitors who might read this; please understand I speak for no one at either AirTran or Southwest Airlines or to their or my career expectations. My views and questions are my own and I will defend with my life as I have RCD73's by hanging it out there overseas to support those freedoms.
So I speak for myself, and will continue to do so
Enough Said
Read the line below
01-06-2011 | 06:36 PM
#198
On Reserve
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How can you call current pay "irrelevant"? That is what the guy is making today. That's almost the definition of the word "relevant".
If you're implying that an Arbitrator wouldn't consider their new contract to be relevant . . . . I think in terms of pay protection they most certainly would use 2010 rates, not 2001 rates- it wouldn't make sense to pay protect someone for less than they are already making.
Regardless, I don't think an Arbitrator (or three) will bump anyone out of their seat. If you expect that to happen, you are likely to be disappointed.
If you're implying that an Arbitrator wouldn't consider their new contract to be relevant . . . . I think in terms of pay protection they most certainly would use 2010 rates, not 2001 rates- it wouldn't make sense to pay protect someone for less than they are already making.
Regardless, I don't think an Arbitrator (or three) will bump anyone out of their seat. If you expect that to happen, you are likely to be disappointed.
As for the seat position - that IS totally irrelevant. It is not "their seat". Left seat, right seat - WGAS. A chimp could fly from either. Thinking a 10 year SWA FO will be pulling the gear for a 6 year Airtran captain is not even close to being rational thought. Where does "fair and equitable" include seat position anyway? A 10 year SWA FO earns more (with better QOL) than a 7 or even 8 year (at the new payrate) Airtran captain. So why would you call it a "windfall" for that SWA guy, who has been a loyal SWA employee, to upgrade before them?
Re-read my last post (take away the irrelevant part if that helps to get through it) and tell me what part of it is not accurate. We pretty much know what the Airtran pilots have going for them but...what benefits will the SWA pilots alone realize to make things equitable? Better company, way more money, better QOL, more vacation, higher trip density, lower union dues, better medical,...what?
01-06-2011 | 11:53 PM
#200
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From: A318/319 pic
...As for the seat position - that IS totally irrelevant. It is not "their seat". Left seat, right seat - WGAS. A chimp could fly from either. Thinking a 10 year SWA FO will be pulling the gear for a 6 year Airtran captain is not even close to being rational thought. Where does "fair and equitable" include seat position anyway?
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