I don't want to rip on my own company or to agree with the fish. However, our pay HAS to come up. 4 years to captain is awesome and a great selling point. However, captain is captain. A captain on a 320 should make more than our captains do. No way to deny that.

 

Absolutely.

 

Cool, when did your friend get the call?

 

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

 

Fish - nobody is denying that our pay needs to come up, not even me. It clearly needs to be better. But to compare it to RJ pay is laughable.

If you really want to compare pay and career path at an ALPA regional to Virgin America, perhaps the best side by side comparisson is Compass Airlines. The companies began operations three months apart. Compass has 36 aircraft in operation, Virgin has 39. According to APC, the most junior captains at both companies were hired within 2 months of each other.

So if I had a choice between going to Virgin America or Compass in, let's say in January 2008, let's take a look at where I would be today:

Hourly Rate:
Virgin $120
Compass $70

Annual base income at 70 Hr guarantee:
Virgin - $100,800
Compass - $58,800

Per Diem:
Virgin - $2.00/hr
Compass - $1.55/hr

How about if I were a job seeker today and looking at first and second year issues:

Hourly rate:
Virgin - year 1 $44/hr, year 2 $60/hr
Compass - year 1 $24, year 2 $ 35/hr

Annual income at 70 hr guarantee:
Virgin - year 1 $36.960, year 2 $50,400
Compass - year 1 $20,160 (if you are a family man with a couple of kids you are being paid poverty level wages), year 2 $29,400. As an added bonus if you happen to decide that living in poverty is not for you and you get a better job offer, you get to pay Compass back your training contract as well.

As for intangibles -
Compass has six aircraft on order, Virgin has 72.

Virgin is part of the Virgin group, a globally recognized and well respected brand; Compass is part of Trans States holdings - no comment is needed.

Virgin America has won numerous awards for its product, including four years in a row as Travel And Leisure Magazine's best domestic U.S. airline, three years in a row as Conde Nast Traveler's best domestic U.S. airline, three years in a row as best in class from the Zagat Global Airline Survery, is the reigning award winner for "Passenger Service" Air Transport World's Industry Achievement Awards, and is the top North American low cost carrier according to the World Airline Awards from Skytrax. Compass has won....well...hmm...I will let you know when I come accross something.

The only possible way fishfreighter's argument/logic makes any sense is if you have a time machine and can go back base your career moves based what you know today.

Unfortunately the former TWA pilots at Virgin had no idea they would get bought by American and sold down the river by ALPA (although it is looking great for their DFR lawsuit against ALPA), the former United guys at Virgin could not have known their company would furlough 1400+ pilots, the former American guys at Virgin could not have known their company would furlough 1500+ pilots, the former DHL/Astar/ABX guys at Virgin could not have known their companies would furough over 700 pilots, the former Midwest, ATA and Aloha guys at Virgin could not have known their companies would shut down, the former USA 3000 pilots at Virgin could not have known their company would die a slow four year death, the former NetJets guys at Virgin could not have known their company would furlough 500 pilots. But according to some, all the guys at Virgin are simply RJ guys after a quick upgrade to undercut the union guys at legacy carriers.

 

WOW!!!!!! Great Post!

 

I guess VX guys know what they're worth...currently $50 to $76 an hour LESS than other narrowbody pilots.

And yet, they can't understand even the simplest concept of how that effects all the rest of our wages.

Write it off to red Kool-Aid dementia.

 

Fish, Everybody knows that the pilots at VX are under paid and that the rates have to go up. I think that was the point, as well as the opinion that flying for VX is better than flying for any regional on any equipment at said regional. First year captains pay at VX is within $1 of 18 year captain pay on the CRJ700 at ASA. Which job would you take? If something happened to Alaska and you found yourself with the choice between VX and the myriad of regional airlines currently hiring, which would you HONESTLY choose?

I am quite sure that the good folks flying at VX did not take the job with the thought that they were going to intentionally undermine the airline industry. I'm sure that they realized that their first responsibility was to provide for their respective families, and that they would have to try to work to better the aviation industry from the inside of VX instead of complaining about VX from the outside.

 

Nicely put. Both of you. Its easy for someone to judge when they have never seen hardship in their career. If Alaska shut there doors today. Fish would be in line for a job at vx. Especially with noone else currently hiring.

 

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