DALPA on notice
10-18-2011, 08:14 AM
#121
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 581
ACL,
(Any other ALPA/DALPA apologists/stalwarts/aficionados feel free to chime in.)
Serious question. You (and several others) advocate an effort to change DALPA within the existing ALPA structure and bylaws. More specifically; attend meetings, introduce resolutions, recall representatives (if necessary), etc.
A resolution was introduced (and passed) to publish the data on Flight Pay Loss. That seems a fairly straightforward and simple thing to do. However literally months have gone by and it's still not available.
If DALPA is unable (or unwilling) to comply with this, why should any of us put the effort in to try and change such a dysfunctional organization from within?
Note: I've tried to postulate this question fairly and would appreciate response(s) in that same vein, and not merely a smart a** reply.
(Any other ALPA/DALPA apologists/stalwarts/aficionados feel free to chime in.)
Serious question. You (and several others) advocate an effort to change DALPA within the existing ALPA structure and bylaws. More specifically; attend meetings, introduce resolutions, recall representatives (if necessary), etc.
A resolution was introduced (and passed) to publish the data on Flight Pay Loss. That seems a fairly straightforward and simple thing to do. However literally months have gone by and it's still not available.
If DALPA is unable (or unwilling) to comply with this, why should any of us put the effort in to try and change such a dysfunctional organization from within?
Note: I've tried to postulate this question fairly and would appreciate response(s) in that same vein, and not merely a smart a** reply.
10-18-2011, 08:14 AM
#122
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Space Shuttle PIC
Posts: 2,007
Mr. PineappleGuy the accountant, Good or bad?
October 18, 2011, 11:58 AM ET
Airlines (Even AMR!) Rising; Data Shows Passenger Revenue Growing
By Avi Salzman
Airline stocks rose in morning trading after the Air Transport Association said last night that capacity continued to tighten in the industry in September and airlines are getting more revenue from each passenger per available seat mile.
“The US domestic market (excluding express results) continues to impress, with September traffic up by 0.4% on 2.1% less capacity, for a load factor of 83.6%. Passenger unit revenue growth outpaced the total system and was up by 14.2%,” writes Helane Becker, an analyst at Dahlman Rose.
Becker expects Southwest (LUV) to benefit from the strong domestic environment, because it is the largest mainline carrier in the U.S. Southwest, however, said that it will sell some discounted tickets in November and December, which is a somewhat troubling sign.
Airlines also appear to be performing well in Latin America as passenger unit revenue rose 14.2%.
“Copa Holdings (CPA) will benefit the most from strength in the Latin American region followed by AMR (AMR), United Continental (UAL), and Delta Air Lines (DAL),” Becker writes.
Pineappleguy, Comments? Will this help our chances for Southwest+?
Airlines (Even AMR!) Rising; Data Shows Passenger Revenue Growing
By Avi Salzman
Airline stocks rose in morning trading after the Air Transport Association said last night that capacity continued to tighten in the industry in September and airlines are getting more revenue from each passenger per available seat mile.
“The US domestic market (excluding express results) continues to impress, with September traffic up by 0.4% on 2.1% less capacity, for a load factor of 83.6%. Passenger unit revenue growth outpaced the total system and was up by 14.2%,” writes Helane Becker, an analyst at Dahlman Rose.
Becker expects Southwest (LUV) to benefit from the strong domestic environment, because it is the largest mainline carrier in the U.S. Southwest, however, said that it will sell some discounted tickets in November and December, which is a somewhat troubling sign.
Airlines also appear to be performing well in Latin America as passenger unit revenue rose 14.2%.
“Copa Holdings (CPA) will benefit the most from strength in the Latin American region followed by AMR (AMR), United Continental (UAL), and Delta Air Lines (DAL),” Becker writes.
Pineappleguy, Comments? Will this help our chances for Southwest+?
10-18-2011, 08:35 AM
#123
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Originally Posted by Wasatch Phantom
ACL,
(Any other ALPA/DALPA apologists/stalwarts/aficionados feel free to chime in.)
Serious question. You (and several others) advocate an effort to change DALPA within the existing ALPA structure and bylaws. More specifically; attend meetings, introduce resolutions, recall representatives (if necessary), etc.
A resolution was introduced (and passed) to publish the data on Flight Pay Loss. That seems a fairly straightforward and simple thing to do. However literally months have gone by and it's still not available.
If DALPA is unable (or unwilling) to comply with this, why should any of us put the effort in to try and change such a dysfunctional organization from within?
Note: I've tried to postulate this question fairly and would appreciate response(s) in that same vein, and not merely a smart a** reply.
(Any other ALPA/DALPA apologists/stalwarts/aficionados feel free to chime in.)
Serious question. You (and several others) advocate an effort to change DALPA within the existing ALPA structure and bylaws. More specifically; attend meetings, introduce resolutions, recall representatives (if necessary), etc.
A resolution was introduced (and passed) to publish the data on Flight Pay Loss. That seems a fairly straightforward and simple thing to do. However literally months have gone by and it's still not available.
If DALPA is unable (or unwilling) to comply with this, why should any of us put the effort in to try and change such a dysfunctional organization from within?
Note: I've tried to postulate this question fairly and would appreciate response(s) in that same vein, and not merely a smart a** reply.
Again, I will note. DALPA is the best advocate for DPA. Their actions, or lack there of, and ALPA's legal ineptitude among other things drive cards in.
TO'Ms PTC showing and the continued stall and delay on providing legitimately comparable AFKLM data serves to sharpen the focus on downward management. The pilots don't like this. Thus, the cards keep coming in, and more and more lanyards and tags are sprouting up on crew members everywhere.
Ultimately DALPA and ALPA will go down due to self inflicted wounds. Real question is.... which one will be first?
10-18-2011, 08:40 AM
#124
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by Wasatch Phantom
ACL,
(Any other ALPA/DALPA apologists/stalwarts/aficionados feel free to chime in.)
Serious question. You (and several others) advocate an effort to change DALPA within the existing ALPA structure and bylaws. More specifically; attend meetings, introduce resolutions, recall representatives (if necessary), etc.
A resolution was introduced (and passed) to publish the data on Flight Pay Loss. That seems a fairly straightforward and simple thing to do. However literally months have gone by and it's still not available.
If DALPA is unable (or unwilling) to comply with this, why should any of us put the effort in to try and change such a dysfunctional organization from within?
Note: I've tried to postulate this question fairly and would appreciate response(s) in that same vein, and not merely a smart a** reply.
(Any other ALPA/DALPA apologists/stalwarts/aficionados feel free to chime in.)
Serious question. You (and several others) advocate an effort to change DALPA within the existing ALPA structure and bylaws. More specifically; attend meetings, introduce resolutions, recall representatives (if necessary), etc.
A resolution was introduced (and passed) to publish the data on Flight Pay Loss. That seems a fairly straightforward and simple thing to do. However literally months have gone by and it's still not available.
If DALPA is unable (or unwilling) to comply with this, why should any of us put the effort in to try and change such a dysfunctional organization from within?
Note: I've tried to postulate this question fairly and would appreciate response(s) in that same vein, and not merely a smart a** reply.
The repines that I got was that this FPL resolution/amended resolution and final recommendation from the committee is on the agenda for the Nov MEC meeting.
10-18-2011, 08:47 AM
#125
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by TheManager
The answer seems to be no. Stalling while waiting for a committee that meets once a month to make recommendations on "how to accomplish" this is deplorable. Anyway to mitigate the damage that committee chairs and such receive 90+ hours a month on the highest equipment they can hold plus 4 figure stipends( all paid for by Delta) seem to be the game plan.
Again, I will note. DALPA is the best advocate for DPA. Their actions, or lack there of, and ALPA's legal ineptitude among other things drive cards in.
TO'Ms PTC showing and the continued stall and delay on providing legitimately comparable AFKLM data serves to sharpen the focus on downward management. The pilots don't like this. Thus, the cards keep coming in, and more and more lanyards and tags are sprouting up on crew members everywhere.
Ultimately DALPA and ALPA will go down due to self inflicted wounds. Real question is.... which one will be first?
Again, I will note. DALPA is the best advocate for DPA. Their actions, or lack there of, and ALPA's legal ineptitude among other things drive cards in.
TO'Ms PTC showing and the continued stall and delay on providing legitimately comparable AFKLM data serves to sharpen the focus on downward management. The pilots don't like this. Thus, the cards keep coming in, and more and more lanyards and tags are sprouting up on crew members everywhere.
Ultimately DALPA and ALPA will go down due to self inflicted wounds. Real question is.... which one will be first?
Wrt to the fpl issue what have your res said? I advocate accountability and recall if needed. DPA to me is a convent place to show anger. They may get to 50% of pilots sending in cards but the harsh reality is forcing sitting reps to change out the DALPA leader or recalling your reps to get someone that would solves the same issues and a lot more expeditiously than voting for an alternate union.
People like me see the same issues you do but for the logic listed above really prefer to take the action that fixes what we have. It is not an endorsement of the current MO.
10-18-2011, 08:53 AM
#126
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by sailingfun
They don't have anyone welling to donate money either. That I find very strange. I would think a 1000 dollar donation from each Captain and a 500 dollar donation from each copilot who wants DPA would be minimal. Instead its like 11 bucks per pilot.
What would be cool is if we could say the % we're paying to ALPA could be diverted to the DPA. Then they'd have a lot of money. But I doubt many Captains right now have $1000 or First Officer's have $500 to spare.
10-18-2011, 08:59 AM
#127
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
I do agree that what the pilots are seeing from their Admin is not enough and they want more. Whether DALPA delivers or DPA happens to be a convent alternative lies solely with our pilots.
Wrt to the fpl issue what have your res said? I advocate accountability and recall if needed. DPA to me is a convent place to show anger. They may get to 50% of pilots sending in cards but the harsh reality is forcing sitting reps to change out the DALPA leader or recalling your reps to get someone that would solves the same issues and a lot more expeditiously than voting for an alternate union.
People like me see the same issues you do but for the logic listed above really prefer to take the action that fixes what we have. It is not an endorsement of the current MO.
Wrt to the fpl issue what have your res said? I advocate accountability and recall if needed. DPA to me is a convent place to show anger. They may get to 50% of pilots sending in cards but the harsh reality is forcing sitting reps to change out the DALPA leader or recalling your reps to get someone that would solves the same issues and a lot more expeditiously than voting for an alternate union.
People like me see the same issues you do but for the logic listed above really prefer to take the action that fixes what we have. It is not an endorsement of the current MO.
I think there is somebody considering doing just that and I learned that when Slowplay mentioned it but the post was erased for TOS violation on page 3 of this thread.
Also, if someone is DPA and runs and wins would ALPA have them sign a NDA? Seems like they could easily be silenced? Just on the logistics it seems it might be difficult. Could an elected LEC member refuse a NDA?
10-18-2011, 09:00 AM
#128
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
I do agree that what the pilots are seeing from their Admin is not enough and they want more. Whether DALPA delivers or DPA happens to be a convent alternative lies solely with our pilots.
Wrt to the fpl issue what have your res said? I advocate accountability and recall if needed. DPA to me is a convent place to show anger. They may get to 50% of pilots sending in cards but the harsh reality is forcing sitting reps to change out the DALPA leader or recalling your reps to get someone that would solves the same issues and a lot more expeditiously than voting for an alternate union.
People like me see the same issues you do but for the logic listed above really prefer to take the action that fixes what we have. It is not an endorsement of the current MO.
Wrt to the fpl issue what have your res said? I advocate accountability and recall if needed. DPA to me is a convent place to show anger. They may get to 50% of pilots sending in cards but the harsh reality is forcing sitting reps to change out the DALPA leader or recalling your reps to get someone that would solves the same issues and a lot more expeditiously than voting for an alternate union.
People like me see the same issues you do but for the logic listed above really prefer to take the action that fixes what we have. It is not an endorsement of the current MO.
Also, ALPA has horrendous potential legal issues/damages as well as a conflict of interest wrt regionals. How about dues and National bloat?
Now, what looks easier.
10-18-2011, 09:07 AM
#129
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by TheManager
Not that easy. Power lies in the committee chairs. Not so easy to replace them now is it.
Also, ALPA has horrendous potential legal issues/damages as well as a conflict of interest wrt regionals. How about dues and National bloat?
Now, what looks easier.
Also, ALPA has horrendous potential legal issues/damages as well as a conflict of interest wrt regionals. How about dues and National bloat?
Now, what looks easier.
We have a very broken structure that is supposed to be "bottom up" but in reality functions as a "top down." I don't see it getting fixed with what ACL is advocating.
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