What Happens if this TA Passes?
06-07-2012 | 09:51 AM
#133
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
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From: A-320A
ACL, you above many should know that this is a cyclical business. RA and company are trying very hard to even out the cycles. For the first time since deregulation I believe DL has a business plan that will work and provide steady profits and steady improvements for the pilots. Think SW and how every year they get a little more. I have little empathy for a 4 year pilot sitting on the 767ER that has had two raises every year(longevity and contractual) talking about expectations. With our retirement plan the way it is you will retire a multi millionaire and never have to go through losing a pension in your 50's. In 5 to 7 years you will start moving up due to retirements. Some food for thought: The NMB doesn't give a rats a$$ about your expectations, they see a pilot group #2 in their industry and are under no obligations to make us #1. If UCAL and AA/USAIR settle under us currently what does that do for the negotiating climate. You believe DL will come back to the table if we reject this contract. My sources say different, the second offer if we get 1 will be worse. You vote your way I'll vote mine then in the aftermath we will deal with the results together. Yes, I'm at the top of the heap now but for the first 7 years of my career I was stuck on the lowest paying position at DL. That's the breaks of an airline career, as an industry it sucks and for labor it has always been a wild ride.
In seven years I will be in a position to hold about what I hold now with a line. I hit 50% in 2023 without a increase to the retirement age which may br coming. I will be able to hold ER capt at 58. I retire in the low double digits.
As for retirement, I am aware. It will be an add on to what I have been very successful at in my own right.
None of this means that I should be willing to go with less protections because I can. Again, it's not about me, it's about this group. If I were to take a singular I perspective on this TA I should vote for it because I can take a down bid, I can take a furlough, and I could take possible stagnation.
There see a lot of if if ifs out there will "possible" future growth. It's just like the mass of 738's we were going to get that never materialized. I agree their "could" be impressive hiring out there but because of this TA we will see less bodies because of it.
Dal wants to go after it, that is known, it's also a reason not to sell ourselves short. If the TA passes we all move on. We just need to realize a lot needs to be fixed and ASAP.
06-07-2012 | 09:51 AM
#134
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
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From: Poodle Whisperer
Slow, even though he/we were not here for the bloodletting, that does not exclude us from the expectation that the value of a DAL pilot job would return. It's been have half a decade.
I know I came here with the expectation that the job and career would improve. If I did not have that expectation I would have not come.
I know I came here with the expectation that the job and career would improve. If I did not have that expectation I would have not come.
06-07-2012 | 09:55 AM
#135
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
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From: A-320A
Honest question Bill. You have gone from madder than heck to supporting this deal totally. I assume because of what your seniority is it will allow a 2014 717A seat. Correct?
06-07-2012 | 09:57 AM
#136
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,601
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From: Dismayed
I've looked at it and with the assumption that ALPA can't/won't enforce scope (hasn't happened yet), then what's left is reserve works harder requiring less pilots and we have codified the sick leave harassment program. We get pay raises commensurate with the rest of the employee groups and we had to give up something to get it.
I like to look at the glass as half full, but I see this whole contract as concessionary. I'm willing, even desperate for someone to point out what I'm missing on this that is SO positive.
06-07-2012 | 09:59 AM
#137
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,601
Likes: 0
From: Dismayed
The funny thing Finis is I agree in principle with you, and for that reason I do not believe that fixing a few items (less than 30 specific lines) in this agreement is enough to make the company choose option B. I don't. They may but it will cost them the position they want and a lot more money than what the fixes are.
In seven years I will be in a position to hold about what I hold now with a line. I hit 50% in 2023 without a increase to the retirement age which may br coming. I will be able to hold ER capt at 58. I retire in the low double digits.
As for retirement, I am aware. It will be an add on to what I have been very successful at in my own right.
None of this means that I should be willing to go with less protections because I can. Again, it's not about me, it's about this group. If I were to take a singular I perspective on this TA I should vote for it because I can take a down bid, I can take a furlough, and I could take possible stagnation.
There see a lot of if if ifs out there will "possible" future growth. It's just like the mass of 738's we were going to get that never materialized. I agree their "could" be impressive hiring out there but because of this TA we will see less bodies because of it.
Dal wants to go after it, that is known, it's also a reason not to sell ourselves short. If the TA passes we all move on. We just need to realize a lot needs to be fixed and ASAP.
In seven years I will be in a position to hold about what I hold now with a line. I hit 50% in 2023 without a increase to the retirement age which may br coming. I will be able to hold ER capt at 58. I retire in the low double digits.
As for retirement, I am aware. It will be an add on to what I have been very successful at in my own right.
None of this means that I should be willing to go with less protections because I can. Again, it's not about me, it's about this group. If I were to take a singular I perspective on this TA I should vote for it because I can take a down bid, I can take a furlough, and I could take possible stagnation.
There see a lot of if if ifs out there will "possible" future growth. It's just like the mass of 738's we were going to get that never materialized. I agree their "could" be impressive hiring out there but because of this TA we will see less bodies because of it.
Dal wants to go after it, that is known, it's also a reason not to sell ourselves short. If the TA passes we all move on. We just need to realize a lot needs to be fixed and ASAP.
If this passes, we all need to move on and more important get some actual attorney's to fix the language. I don't mean the ALPA ones either, some folks that write contracts and negotiate deals for a living and who aren't beholden to the masters in Herndon.
06-07-2012 | 10:01 AM
#138
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
Likes: 0
From: Poodle Whisperer
Considering what happened with the RAH stuff, if it passes it's likely already too late. (i.e. "whoops.... we'll get em next time!")
06-07-2012 | 10:03 AM
#139
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
Likes: 0
From: Poodle Whisperer
Bill has been one of the most surprising in this... If you look at his posting history it was like a bull in a china shop almost to the level of Bacon.
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