What Happens if this TA Passes?
06-07-2012 | 01:19 PM
#151
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
No really ... did anyone in the "we don't want them on our seniority list" generation ever use the terms "outsourcing," or "scope sale." Before?
Would the MEC bodies and leadership that existed from 2000 to 2010 come up with a TA as good as we got now?
I think those who believe in unionism are having an effect.
06-07-2012 | 01:22 PM
#152
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
(not that with my seniority I have any choice in the matter
).
06-07-2012 | 01:46 PM
#153
Banned
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: Space Shuttle PIC
Delta to slash use of 50-seat planes, make more use of bigger, more comfortable planes
Minneapolis / St. Paul Business Journal by Ed Stych, Web Producer
Date: Thursday, June 7, 2012, 12:43pm CDT -
Delta Air Lines Inc. would remove 218 of its 50-seat planes from its fleet if a new labor agreement with the carrier's pilots union is approved.
Delta Air Lines Inc. would remove 218 of its 50-seat planes from its fleet if a new labor agreement with the carrier's pilots union is approved.
MinnPost reports that the deal calls for capping the number of 50-seat planes that can be flown for Atlanta-based Delta (NYSE: DAL) to 125 planes.
The airline contracts with regional carriers, such as Pinnacle Airlines and SkyWest, to fly 343 of the 50-seat planes regionally. So the 125-plane cap would be a 64 percent reduction from the current fleet.
The end result would be that travelers flying out of Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport — where Delta is dominant — will fly on bigger planes more often than in the past.
Delta has worked out a deal with Southwest Airlines Co. to lease 88 Boeing 717s, which seat 117 people.
"If the pilots agreement is ratified, we would be in a position to begin adding these 717s to our mainline fleet next year," Delta CEO Richard Anderson told Delta employees, as reported by MinnPost. "We would mostly use them to replace inefficient 50-seat regional jets."
Pilots will start to vote later this month on the proposed contract
Minneapolis / St. Paul Business Journal by Ed Stych, Web Producer
Date: Thursday, June 7, 2012, 12:43pm CDT -
Delta Air Lines Inc. would remove 218 of its 50-seat planes from its fleet if a new labor agreement with the carrier's pilots union is approved.
Delta Air Lines Inc. would remove 218 of its 50-seat planes from its fleet if a new labor agreement with the carrier's pilots union is approved.
MinnPost reports that the deal calls for capping the number of 50-seat planes that can be flown for Atlanta-based Delta (NYSE: DAL) to 125 planes.
The airline contracts with regional carriers, such as Pinnacle Airlines and SkyWest, to fly 343 of the 50-seat planes regionally. So the 125-plane cap would be a 64 percent reduction from the current fleet.
The end result would be that travelers flying out of Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport — where Delta is dominant — will fly on bigger planes more often than in the past.
Delta has worked out a deal with Southwest Airlines Co. to lease 88 Boeing 717s, which seat 117 people.
"If the pilots agreement is ratified, we would be in a position to begin adding these 717s to our mainline fleet next year," Delta CEO Richard Anderson told Delta employees, as reported by MinnPost. "We would mostly use them to replace inefficient 50-seat regional jets."
Pilots will start to vote later this month on the proposed contract
06-07-2012 | 02:45 PM
#154
Back on TDY
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From: 747-400 Captain
Carl
06-07-2012 | 04:24 PM
#156
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 667
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From: 737n/FO
Slow, even though he/we were not here for the bloodletting, that does not exclude us from the expectation that the value of a DAL pilot job would return. It's been have half a decade.
I know I came here with the expectation that the job and career would improve. If I did not have that expectation I would have not come.
I know I came here with the expectation that the job and career would improve. If I did not have that expectation I would have not come.
It's been more than half a decade, it's been my entire career. I was on Delta Express in 2001 when I was furloughed (Express was already a B-scale). By time I returned off furlough (late 2005) we were already on the pre BK (save DAL) negotiated pay cut and shortly into the BK pay cut. So, I would argue we (anyone hired on or after 2000 - over 1100 of us that were furloughed) have been on an 11 year stagnation and this contract was supposed to start us back on the way to a good (not great) career. I also turned down SWA to come to DAL and I expected this contract to have significant gains and have been severely disappointed. The "scope protections" and mainline increases everyone is crowing about are only as good as the Union enforcement which so far in my career observation has been very week and lacking. I don't expect this contract (as currently written) to be any different. My current expectations are I will top out as 737n F/O with my pay topping out at around $150K (that is 10 years from now). I have no expectations of WB F/O or CA on any A/C at Delta Air Lines because of the work rule concessions and scope.
Last edited by DAL73n; 06-07-2012 at 04:31 PM. Reason: Spelling
06-07-2012 | 04:27 PM
#157
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 667
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From: 737n/FO
The funny thing Finis is I agree in principle with you, and for that reason I do not believe that fixing a few items (less than 30 specific lines) in this agreement is enough to make the company choose option B. I don't. They may but it will cost them the position they want and a lot more money than what the fixes are.
In seven years I will be in a position to hold about what I hold now with a line. I hit 50% in 2023 without a increase to the retirement age which may br coming. I will be able to hold ER capt at 58. I retire in the low double digits.
As for retirement, I am aware. It will be an add on to what I have been very successful at in my own right.
None of this means that I should be willing to go with less protections because I can. Again, it's not about me, it's about this group. If I were to take a singular I perspective on this TA I should vote for it because I can take a down bid, I can take a furlough, and I could take possible stagnation.
There see a lot of if if ifs out there will "possible" future growth. It's just like the mass of 738's we were going to get that never materialized. I agree their "could" be impressive hiring out there but because of this TA we will see less bodies because of it.
Dal wants to go after it, that is known, it's also a reason not to sell ourselves short. If the TA passes we all move on. We just need to realize a lot needs to be fixed and ASAP.
In seven years I will be in a position to hold about what I hold now with a line. I hit 50% in 2023 without a increase to the retirement age which may br coming. I will be able to hold ER capt at 58. I retire in the low double digits.
As for retirement, I am aware. It will be an add on to what I have been very successful at in my own right.
None of this means that I should be willing to go with less protections because I can. Again, it's not about me, it's about this group. If I were to take a singular I perspective on this TA I should vote for it because I can take a down bid, I can take a furlough, and I could take possible stagnation.
There see a lot of if if ifs out there will "possible" future growth. It's just like the mass of 738's we were going to get that never materialized. I agree their "could" be impressive hiring out there but because of this TA we will see less bodies because of it.
Dal wants to go after it, that is known, it's also a reason not to sell ourselves short. If the TA passes we all move on. We just need to realize a lot needs to be fixed and ASAP.
06-07-2012 | 04:31 PM
#158
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
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From: Poodle Whisperer
Excellent reply - this contract has a lot of good in it, IN THEORY. I just don't think most of the language is tight enough to hold up and I don't think this current union leadership will be tough enough to enforce the current language. I don't believe the company is going to go scorched earth (full Section 6) if we just ask for a few things - it isn't logical.
06-07-2012 | 09:26 PM
#160
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,836
Likes: 175
From: window seat
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