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Delta deal could become model for scope

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Delta deal could become model for scope

Old 06-12-2012, 06:50 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp View Post
76 seaters are more profitable which help with profit sharing!

Oh.. we gave up 33% of ours to "fund" meager pay rate increases while the company saves gobs of money through parking 50 seat RJ's which are going away anyways.
Why do people keep saying the 50 seaters are going away anyway? Lots of those airplanes still have years left on their contracts with the DCI carrier, is delta going to just park the airframe and pay, pinnacle, xjet etc.. there block hour rate for kicks? There are some airframes that have short term leases that run out pretty soon but definitley not the bulk of the fleet.
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:33 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Bigshooter107 View Post
Why do people keep saying the 50 seaters are going away anyway? Lots of those airplanes still have years left on their contracts with the DCI carrier, is delta going to just park the airframe and pay, pinnacle, xjet etc.. there block hour rate for kicks? There are some airframes that have short term leases that run out pretty soon but definitley not the bulk of the fleet.
155 are on lease through 2019
111 through 2020
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Old 06-12-2012, 08:33 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
Hey, Sailor. What are those RJ's doing running around at LCC at mainline?

Yeah... those are facts, too.
The E190? You mean the one they tried to sell in 2009? And the same one that RJET uses for service under Frontier branding? Doesn't seem like a very stable RJ at mainline.

Remember Mid-Atlantic? That was a smart business decision. They even used the "US AIR" call sign. Then they sold out the crabby Mid-Atlantic guys when they sold the E170/E175 operation to RJET. That may have been the last good attempt at RJ flying st mainline. Look how it turned out for the Mid-Atlantic guysb

However - for Delta pilots, we can be thankful that our TA doesn't allow DCI to fly anything larger than 76 seats. So if the fleet gurus at DAL decide to buy a bunch of E190s (which they won't) I'll be happy to swing your gear in one.

So what's the track record of the airplane again?
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Old 06-12-2012, 08:34 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot

That's very pragmatic and I assume you hope for a mid term where we can fix a lot of this, correct?
Say about four years from now?
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:05 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by SailorJerry View Post
Say about four years from now?
No, four years from now you will be willing to give up the 90 seaters (for the same reason you are willing to give up the 76 seaters this time).

With the passage of time, you will get used to the idea of the regionals flying bigger jets, and it will just make sense (to you and Lumberg anyhow) to let them fly the 90s as well.

OR...

You could draw a line in the sand NOW and say, "No more! We've already given you too many, and too big. We will fly the 76 and larger at mainline."
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:26 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by ColdWhiskey View Post
No, four years from now you will be willing to give up the 90 seaters (for the same reason you are willing to give up the 76 seaters this time).

With the passage of time, you will get used to the idea of the regionals flying bigger jets, and it will just make sense (to you and Lumberg anyhow) to let them fly the 90s as well.

OR...

You could draw a line in the sand NOW and say, "No more! We've already given you too many, and too big. We will fly the 76 and larger at mainline."
And you could get tabled by the NMB for many years and accomplish nothing. That horse has long left the barn. Not a completely lost cause though, I'm thinking around 2018 we will be able to accomplish that. Until then let's reduce outsourced jobs every contract. Win win.
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by finis72 View Post
And you could get tabled by the NMB for many years and accomplish nothing. That horse has long left the barn. Not a completely lost cause though, I'm thinking around 2018 we will be able to accomplish that. Until then let's reduce outsourced jobs every contract. Win win.
Maybe that horse can be brought back to the barn?? I think MANY are underestimating the LEVERAGE the pilot group currently possesses.

I am just curious, why do you think that could be accomplished in 2018, but not now??

I realize that the 70/76 jet is the correct one for MANY markets. That is why I would like to see the cap left where it is, and any future 76 or larger jets flown at mainline. Let the company fly as many 76s as they want, and where they want. Just insist that any future ones be flown at mainline. Negotiate a 76 and a 90 seat rate that is realistic to the Delta pilot group and is manageable for the company.

Don't underestimate the leverage at hand.
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:56 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by finis72 View Post
And you could get tabled by the NMB for many years and accomplish nothing. That horse has long left the barn. Not a completely lost cause though, I'm thinking around 2018 we will be able to accomplish that. Until then let's reduce outsourced jobs every contract. Win win.
Keep in mind that the company wants this done and wants it done now. Your 2018 number is the exact conjecture that people like myself are accused of that say we could have a new TA quickly after turning this one down.

They both have logic to them, and both are likely. We've come to different conclusions though... I think it's more appropriate long term to send this thing back through the grinder.
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:01 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp View Post
Keep in mind that the company wants this done and wants it done now. Your 2018 number is the exact conjecture that people like myself are accused of that say we could have a new TA quickly after turning this one down.

They both have logic to them, and both are likely. We've come to different conclusions though... I think it's more appropriate long term to send this thing back through the grinder.
A number from my posterior region that takes into account higher fuel prices and fewer pilots. At some point the curves meet and it will be a done deal.
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:35 AM
  #50  
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Wouldn't sunset clauses been zero cost?
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