No, they have a 12.8% chance of flying one single mile on a regional. Throw out the international ops and see how the ASM numbers change.

People don't buy tickets by the hour, or by the mile, or by the pilot. They buy tickets by the flight, which is what the original numbers in this thread addressed, and it's still the most accurate representation.

 

Try again. Says the mil pilot patiently waiting for my number to come up (That's me)

 

Here's Delta for an example:

OLD PWA DL mainline domestic block hours: 52.4% (no minimium req'd!)
NEW PWA with 88 717's minimum mainline domestic block hours: 60.9%
DCI domestic block hour max reduced by 17%
Survey says: TIGHTER SCOPE

OLD PWA: 598 DCI aircraft
NEW PWA: 450 DCI aircraft
Reduction of 148 aircraft
Survey says: TIGHTER SCOPE

OLD PWA: Turboprops up to 76 seats unlimited
NEW PWA: Turboprops count like any other aircraft
Company loophole eliminated
Survey says: TIGHTER SCOPE

OLD PWA DCI seats: NO LIMIT (actual: 35,918)
NEW PWA DCI seats: 30,338 total DCI seats
Reduction of 5,580 DCI seats
Survey says: TIGHTER SCOPE

OLD PWA DCI flights over 900 SM: approx. 29.9 A/C worth of flight segments
NEW PWA DCI flights over 900 SM: Approx. 22.5 A/C worth of flight
Reduction of 7.4 A/C worth of flight segments
Survey says: TIGHTER SCOPE

OLD PWA int'l Code share up to 50% of seats (not revenue c/s)
NEW PWA Int'l Code share up to 40% of seats (not revenue c/s)
Reduced by 20%
Survey says TIGHTER SCOPE

OLD PWA: ALK flying up to 50% code share pax
NEW PWA: ALK flying up to 35% code share pax (2 exceptions still@50%)
Reduced by 30%
Survey says TIGHTER SCOPE

OLD PWA: no requirement to maintain flying when purchasing stake in foreign airline
NEW PWA: When ownership stake reaches 25% in a foreign airline, requirement to maintain block hours from period 12 month's prior
Gained language to protect international flying for Delta Pilots
Survey says: TIGHTER SCOPE

Lee Moak ain't perfect, but its pretty clear he signed at least one contract that tightened scope on nearly every front. Oh, and the separate NW/DL scope clauses pre-merger allowed more outsrouced flying than was codified in the merger JPWA, does that count that as reducing outsourcing?

Scope myopia is dangerous, but it is treatable and you can be cured.

 

Wow. That's quite a list.
Let me try to simplify.

Management dumped a bunch of 50 seaters that were losing money.
In exchange we gave them a bunch more 76 seaters.
Survey says?

 

*You're telling me a bunch = 218 and that a bunch = 70? The transitive property of equality would then say that 218=70. I would contend that is NOT true.

Yes Check, it is quite a list.....because I don't have myopia when it comes to the topic. Scope problems are complex and have built up over many years, and it will take complex solutions over many years to fix it.

Let me un-simplify your example a just a little bit: Management was stuck with 218 jets on long term contracts they couldn't get out of that was left over from a past management team that really ruined the place, and was a major anchor to the future.

We gave them less than 1/3 of that number to offer as "sweeteners" for other companies to agree to break the contracts on the money-losers, and put more restrictions on the remaining ones, PLUS tighten other parts of the DAL PWA scope language.

Additionally, D-ALPA also managed to put a solid chunk (in the 1.5-2 BILLION DOLLAR range) of the money that was going to be spent on keeping those jets in service (lift contracts and long-term maintenance) into the Delta pilots' checking accounts and QOL provisions.

Your energy is great and your desire to improve our position is admirable... I'm all for mainline carriers to reduce and hopefully eliminate outsourcing, and we are on the same page about that. Where we differ is our view on how much progress has been made.

A real mess was left for our generation of airline pilots, and it will take LOTS of rounds of negotiations to fix it.

 

True, but they were also ordering them by the hundreds when they were already losing money. You are giving management waaay too much credit if you suppose that were going to park them just as quickly simply because they were uneconomical.

Scoop

 

Then that would imply that in slamming on the RJ pilot, you having NO airline experience, no experience of the pre 9/11 scope relaxations, etc, you're simply ignorant?

As opposed to the STUPID legacy pilots with the "they took our jerbs!!!!!" mentality that gave up scope.

 

Yawn.

Filler.

 

Liquidating Pinnacle would have solved the problem of being stuck in the contracts. In fact that was most likely plan B had they not gotten the extra 70 jets.

Another thing to consider is that the 50 seaters can't be replaced overnight, it will take Bombardier almost till the end of the current DAL PWA to build half the jets available to DAL. So holding the line in the next contract is even more important than the previous one. However, my feeling is that there will be additional 76 seat jets in exchange for tightening top end scope and pay raises. In 5 years most of the DAL pilot's careers will be secured, and their priorities will shift to focus on the latter portions of their careers.

 

That's usually the kind of response you'll get from the ignorant types.