Imapilot2

Will they ever be a help though? one of my American jumpseaters said their contract will look at us and united for what work we have done and they will get that average. they will never set the bar and do the footwork to raise it in the future, they will only ride the coattails of our work. not sure about the truth to that...just repeating his words.

cni187

Herkflyr

While I think the AA pilots have been a good example of how taking a hard-line approach isn't necessarily the most effective way, they actually did two things, one awhile back and the other recently, that gets my respect, and should get the respect of many others.

1. Back in the late 90s, they established a pay rate on the then-new 737-800 of $186/hr. That allowed us (DAL) to establish a pay-rate of $190/hr (which was loudly lamented on the DALPA forum by the usual just-say-no crowd). THAT pay-rate, coupled with our negotiated rate a couple of years later of $265/hr on the 777 (also lamented) established the "Delta dot" for the UAL guys to create their very lucrative C2K rates, which we then piggybacked on for our own good C2K rates, etc, etc. But it all started, in my opinion, with the APA rates on the 737-800.

2. They recently rejected a TA while in BK, with all the accompanying "doom and gloom" predictions. Guess what? The world did NOT come to an end, and eventually the AA guys received an amended TA that they did endorse and ratify, now fast forward to their current merger and the future looks fairly bright.

I respect both of these.

NERD

Fixed it for you

TANSTAAFL

If the shoe fits......

Sink r8

and

The problem with trying to pigeonhole events into manufactured templates is that they don't always want to conform. The facts like to come in their own dimensions and shapes.

Some votes are about reform vs. status-quo, but no matter how bad we want to pretend it isn't, this one was just a battle for influence between the pre-merger groups. And why wouldn't it be? Anyone with any sense knows that we'll see such votes for some time to come, as during any merger. The truth isn't even that weird; it's the attempts to disguise it that are strange.

The only people this offends are the people trying to brand their side as legitimate, and the other as perverted. The pilot group doesn't like this sort of politics, so it plays better to put a bit of moralist veneer on it. It still is what it is. 2 S guys decided to join the winter games. No N guy voted for a S candidate. Even the Training guy, if I understand correctly, is former N, and went N of the shoe line for his comfort zone.

So I'll have to respectfully disagree with 80 and F4H, that this thing is about reform, unless by reform you mean organizing the MEC's structure the way it was organized at one of the pre-merger groups.

Any observer to these things knows that when ALL of the reputedly independent thinkers go for one guy, it's not because he is the messiah. The quality that these two candidates are, which people were voting for, was that they were perceived by many of the voters to represent their side. I'm very glad that 2 S guys found enough virtues in a N candidate, and I hope we'll finally see a N rep find some qualities in someone that isn't from up there. That'll show us that we're moving away from parochial voting, to issue-based voting.

The good news for the group, is that I think we finally got someone that's effective. MD is an excellent candidate to help the Delta pilots move forward. If what is being said above is true, and he was brought in to torpedo JVS for the sake pilots, the joke might be on the politicians. The pilot group might get the last laugh after all.

Fly4hire

Not quite. I called BB who told me he initially asked MD to run - 2 weeks ago before AA had announced and JVS was the only candidate. MD apparently declined to run, saying he did not want to run unless he could get a solid majority as he did not want to preside over a divided MEC.

AA then announces and it looks like going into the weekend prior to the meeting that he has a lead over JVS. Suddenly MD changes his mind 3 days before the election and decides to run and gets 10 votes with the NYC Capt Rep voting for him otherwise the votes line up very similar to the recall (and 1 ATL rep). JVS who was the whispered successor suddenly gets thrown under the bus with Zero votes by his previous supporters as the recall cabal frantically try's to find anyone who can beat AA.

Maybe you should ask JVS about Lucy's. Yeah it's all politics, and winning is everything. Did Lee ask MD to run? I wonder if we'll see Slowplay in MD's National SPC spot?

That all said MD might do wonders for this MEC provided he can lead from the middle.

slowplay

That's not the timeline according to MD, and you didn't mention that BB assured him that he had "the votes in his pocket" for MD to win. Also, you didn't mention the call from C1 requesting MD to run.

Funny how things work out sometimes.

I can't be National SPC. Carl and TheManager have already anointed me MEC Chairman. Or was that Scambo putting me in charge of DPA?

TheManager

Here is the truth.

Read below to see how they eventually top Delta by $40 per hour in the 767-400, a330 etc.

THE USAIRWAYS MERGER TRANSITION AGREEMENT

Effective on the the date of P.O.R. Which is 12/9/13.

First, some work rules.

This agreement provides for a 1:2 for sit times in excess of two hours.

Distance learning: 50% of hourly rate.
Training: 4:00 per day. (Delta 3:45)

Defined contribution: Currently 14%
January 2014: 16%
Delta: 15%

Sick:
5 hours accrued per month
60 short term banked
940 long terms bank
1000 total and with rollover.
Allowed to sell back.

Rapid re-accrual of 7.5 hrs if out more than 30 days
United has 7hrs
Delta no rapid re-accrual, no rollover, no sell back and capped at 270 max.

Home basing in cities that support it.

COMPENSATION: All 12 year rates. 777 rates reflect group 4 which include 777, 767-4, 787, 340.

Next week on POR, the first raise.
A320 capt. 167.68. F/O 114.02
B777 capt. 213.02. F/O 144.00

January 2014. 8% increase.

A320 capt. 181.00. F/O 123.14
B777 capt. 230.06. F/O 156.44

January 2015. 3% increase.

A320 capt. 186.53. F/O 236.06
B777 capt. 236.00. F/O 161.00

January 2016. 16.5% increase.

A320 capt. 217.24. F/O 147.72
B777 capt. 275.98. F/O 187.67

If needed, on January 2017 a 3.5% increase. On January 2018, a 3.5% increase.

Why if needed you might ask? Here is the rest of the story.

From the MTA:

"MTA provides parity review that compares DAL and UAL as of January 1, 2016. The parity review will use the average of the DAL and UAL pay rates of the A320 and the 737-800 aircraft weighted for the ASM's flown by each airline."

The other groups will be adjusted from there.

Now, when the APA (USAPA will be offered a seat at the table along with the west pilots) negotiates their JCBA, these numbers can change. Likely up, not expecting down.

Other considerations. AMR pilots getting near $100k each from their portion of the company on exit/merger. Frozen DB plans.


Overall, the APA did well. If we are still in section six in 2017-18, they top us by $40 per on the 330/767-4.

That was a pretty nice bar they set.

Personally, I'd never complain about the 4 hour penalty lap in Atlanta if we had their 1:2 after a two hour sit.


The extra cabbage they get in the 401k be nice too.

80ktsClamp

You and your homeboys triggered enough DPA cards where you could be.