4th,

Isn't the definition of a better career kind of subjective?

There's a few Southwest guys who come on here and post how they never wanted to fly international, or how they never wanted to fly 747's/777's and how flying around their "little" 737 for 1-2 hour legs is perfect for them. The fact that SWA guys are leaving for other airlines probably doesn't mean much to them.

Maybe there were a ton of Air Tran guys who thought living in Atlanta, flying Caribbean, turns everyday was just perfect for them. The fact that Air Tran guys were leaving to go to SWA probably didn't mean much to them, either.

You can't tell those SWA guys they aren't having a better career than AMR/United/Delta pilots. So, why are you telling the Air Tran pilots that a SWA career was to be so much better than the career they were going to have?

 

Did you participate or ever listen to the APR 15 2011 phone Q & A with your SWAPA Negotiating Committee ?

If you did not - that is understandable. Only a small percentage of the Southwest pilots ever did. Later in the phone call it was asked and the answer was there were only 170 something that had been on the call. Don't know how many ever listened to it later on your union site.

Direct question several times. What happens if the AirTran pilots force the negotiations to Arbitration? Direct answers by your NC chair and a few others on the committee. I was more specific earlier when Shoelu first challenged my knowledge of the call all together. Then, he was more interested in all the possibilities how I may have heard the call.


Another person asked about if the AAI guys are mad at ALPA. I would say at least approx. 120 were. That is one of the reasons they filed a lawsuit.
ALPA ATN members knew about the threat of non-integration followed by losing their jobs if the AirTran pilots did not accept a negotiated deal vs. following the process agreement and going all the way to arbitration.
The difference between SWAPA and ATN ALPA - SWAPA was telling their pilots the day after the Process Agreement via a phone call. ATN ALPA tried to cover it up and deny. ATN ALPA broke the Process Agreement by not allowing what was agreed to - pilot vote on any negotiated deal. It was written in the Process Agreement. Even SWAPA was asked directly about that and said so during that 1:40 + minute phone Q & A the day after it was signed. ATN ALPA put that out the day after it was signed in an Executive Summary. Yet, ATN ALPA MEC with just a couple of folks prevented it. All according to the lawsuit.

 

It was absolutely never said that:
"SWAPA and SWA had an agreement and made the SW pilots aware that there was NO INTENTION OF IMPLEMENTING A SENIORITY LIST FROM AN ARBITRATED AWARD." If you listened to that call you know this to be true.

Any such agreement would have neccisitated running AirTran separately which would have required membership ratification for any length of time past 24 months which was allowed in the SWAPA CBA for an acquisition.

The ONLY way to maneuver around the Mccaskill-Bond statute would have been to not combine multiple air carriers into a single air carrier. Not combining the carriers is strictly prohibited by Section 1 of the SWAPA CBA. That section could ONLY be modified as outlined in the CBA and modification is not allowed without membership ratification. Without a vote to scrap the industry leading scope clause it couldn't happen.

Mccaskill-Bond states:

The statute applies when two or more air carriers are involved in a "covered transaction," described as:

A transaction for the combination of multiple air carriers into a single air carrier;

 

AirTran's 10Ks indicate a few years of near zero new aircraft (2008 through 2010). 2007 looks like the last year that AirTran added a number of aircraft.

Dec 31 2006: 87 B717/40 737
Dec 31 2007: 87 B717/50 737
Dec 31 2008: 86 B717/50 737
Dec 31 2009: 86 B717/52 737
Dec 31 2010: 86 B717/52 737

Form 10-K Amendment No.1
Form 10-K
form10-k.htm
form10-k.htm
form10-k.htm

Pilot furloughs announced Aug 2008: AirTran to furlough 169 pilots - Orlando Business Journal

 

Just sat on the jumpseat of an old friend of mine who was an AT capt. He held out until the end in ATL, hung around on full pay for a couple months waiting for a class date and is already a Capt on the SWA side.

Never lost his seat. Happy to be here.

 

Of course it's subjective.

That's precisely why I leave it up to the flow of the masses to specify the top five.

Just about everyone was headed to DL, UA, AA, WN and even AS. There were of course some criss-crossing between those five.

No one - and I do mean no one - left any of those top five to work for Airtran.

Regardless of whether you wanted to fly heavy metal or the Texas two-step, if you were lucky enough to land a spot in the top five, it's highly unlikely you would leave.

Just like Spirit - who has some fantastic people - very few set out to work to work there. You end up there. How many at Airtran can honestly say it was their first choice?

 

I did not participate in the call.

I have no idea about the rest of your continued and repeated ramblings - I'm just a line pilot.

 

Whack,
The 3000 refers to the total number on both sides (guess). There are not 1700 angry trannies nor 5800 happy osw.

 

First of all - thank you to the many messages of support about the information I have passed along. No, I do not let Andy or his buddies bother me or get under my skin. I have young grandchildren and listen to them act the same way. Regardless of the truth - they just hold their ground and egg each other on.

Shoelu, You know very well I can't put that recording on this site. You and I know very well what was asked and answered. You just keep holding your story. Many already have listened and they know what I speak of as the truth. I can tell though it really eats at you that I know about that recording and what exactly was said. By who and what time of the tape. I know exactly how many times that it was asked in many different ways. I know what the answer was and by who every time.

I have had the transcripts made available to me and saw the Q&A by the attorneys and the answers. The specific question about were threats made about non integration if it went to arbitration. The ATN ALPA Negotiating Chair answered. He said yes to the threat. He stated who all made it. He gave a narrative of who all was present and what all was said leading up to that threat. ATN MEC chose to keep the ATN pilots in the dark and mislead them about the threat.

 

Just another example of making a statement. Either you just repeat what you have heard someone or many say or you say things and think nobody really checks.
AAI had pilots who left the majors. Not furloughed. That is a fact. Now, they may have left right before the BK was filed at their respective airlines. I am not including furloughed pilots.