Spirit, the multi million dollar mistake!
12-16-2015, 07:51 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,236
Originally Posted by Judge Smails
Oh here we go....blue juicers like you give other JB guys a bad rep. So you say our rates dragged down yours...fine...how do you think your stellar FAR 117 duty rules, your "health insurance" and PBS are going to affect our goals? Oh, I forgot to mention your amazing reserve rules too.
12-16-2015, 08:41 PM
#32
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 57
With the Feds increasing the interest rate by 2% next year and spirit management only wants to increase first year FO pay by less than a dollar, strip all transition conflict language you will be paid less next year and every year after that, if you come here. Getting a new contract here is going to be like captain upgrades--a lot longer than the 2.5 years recruiters are claiming. Read and heed, you have been warned.
12-16-2015, 08:59 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,912
Originally Posted by ptuoverheat
I'd like to know why guys/gals are coming here? Is it because you get to fly a shiny new Airbus? Or, is it just an escape from your regional until someone better calls? Honest question!
Here are the facts-
One of the lowest paid pilots flying the most amount of pax allowed in a bus.
Management wants to take work rules and pay less than standard wages. They don't value us! A good TA is years away!!
Our QOL is no better than JB, Alaska or the Legacies. Don't drink the kool aid, it's not awesome like everyone thinks. Having to game the system to make a decent wage gets old!
Upgrades will stop! We are halfway through our orders.
Below average retirement! We give up hundreds of thousands of dollars with no DC!
Short disability and long term stink!
All this for the most profitable airline in the US! Welcome aboard!
Here are the facts-
One of the lowest paid pilots flying the most amount of pax allowed in a bus.
Management wants to take work rules and pay less than standard wages. They don't value us! A good TA is years away!!
Our QOL is no better than JB, Alaska or the Legacies. Don't drink the kool aid, it's not awesome like everyone thinks. Having to game the system to make a decent wage gets old!
Upgrades will stop! We are halfway through our orders.
Below average retirement! We give up hundreds of thousands of dollars with no DC!
Short disability and long term stink!
All this for the most profitable airline in the US! Welcome aboard!
12-17-2015, 03:00 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: A320 Right
Posts: 378
The OP is right! Why the heck would anyone come here now!? A year ago the bet was upgrade vs low pay. One could reasonably expect to upgrade and offset the pathetic wages. And if you were lucky enough to be under 1000 seniority you'd be sitting pretty when the company grew to 3,000 to 4,000 in a few years.
But anyone coming today will not see an upgrade. You'd have to bet on additional planes which have not been announced or even officially hinted at!
So what? You're gonna leave you $95 rj job to come here for $39? Or some of these corporate and cargo guys making north of 100 are gonna sit in the right seat and make $15,000 there first year?
Don't flame the OP. He has some real questions that we need to seriously consider. Why would ANYONE except a CFI come here. And if no one comes then that has a direct impact on us personally. The NC has to keep this in mind. It's not just the crap captain wages, but guys coming here have to make a living in the right seat for years to come!!!
But anyone coming today will not see an upgrade. You'd have to bet on additional planes which have not been announced or even officially hinted at!
So what? You're gonna leave you $95 rj job to come here for $39? Or some of these corporate and cargo guys making north of 100 are gonna sit in the right seat and make $15,000 there first year?
Don't flame the OP. He has some real questions that we need to seriously consider. Why would ANYONE except a CFI come here. And if no one comes then that has a direct impact on us personally. The NC has to keep this in mind. It's not just the crap captain wages, but guys coming here have to make a living in the right seat for years to come!!!
12-17-2015, 04:59 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Position: DTW Left
Posts: 168
Originally Posted by Gunga Din
The OP is right! Why the heck would anyone come here now!? A year ago the bet was upgrade vs low pay. One could reasonably expect to upgrade and offset the pathetic wages. And if you were lucky enough to be under 1000 seniority you'd be sitting pretty when the company grew to 3,000 to 4,000 in a few years.
But anyone coming today will not see an upgrade. You'd have to bet on additional planes which have not been announced or even officially hinted at!
So what? You're gonna leave you $95 rj job to come here for $39? Or some of these corporate and cargo guys making north of 100 are gonna sit in the right seat and make $15,000 there first year?
Don't flame the OP. He has some real questions that we need to seriously consider. Why would ANYONE except a CFI come here. And if no one comes then that has a direct impact on us personally. The NC has to keep this in mind. It's not just the crap captain wages, but guys coming here have to make a living in the right seat for years to come!!!
But anyone coming today will not see an upgrade. You'd have to bet on additional planes which have not been announced or even officially hinted at!
So what? You're gonna leave you $95 rj job to come here for $39? Or some of these corporate and cargo guys making north of 100 are gonna sit in the right seat and make $15,000 there first year?
Don't flame the OP. He has some real questions that we need to seriously consider. Why would ANYONE except a CFI come here. And if no one comes then that has a direct impact on us personally. The NC has to keep this in mind. It's not just the crap captain wages, but guys coming here have to make a living in the right seat for years to come!!!
The OP is disgruntled and quite possibly a troll but he is correct. The numbers aren't in the favor of new hires moving forward. The back side of the growth chart is very close and they will be looking at quite a while in the right seat. If this deal takes 1-2 years to produce results that will make their situations even worse. The company is still touting a 2.5 year upgrade. Perception is they'll make the money back within 3 years and then some. But remember, that is perception. He is right that one of the few ways we will see a deal sooner than later will be if they aren't filling new hire classes and attrition is exceeding their capacity to staff the airframes and upgrade. Until then they have some of the cheapest bus pilots in the nation.
12-17-2015, 05:07 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: A320 Right
Posts: 378
Originally Posted by RalphWiggum
The OP is disgruntled and quite possibly a troll but he is correct. The numbers aren't in the favor of new hires moving forward. The back side of the growth chart is very close and they will be looking at quite a while in the right seat. If this deal takes 1-2 years to produce results that will make their situations even worse. The company is still touting a 2.5 year upgrade. Perception is they'll make the money back within 3 years and then some. But remember, that is perception. He is right that one of the few ways we will see a deal sooner than later will be if they aren't filling new hire classes and attrition is exceeding their capacity to staff the airframes and upgrade. Until then they have some of the cheapest bus pilots in the nation.
1) keeps average wages way down
2) allows them to advertise quick upgrades and 3) keeps the any real culture and solidarity at a minimum.
As long as we pay above RJ Fo or CFI wages the bottom of the barrel will still apply. That's why NC needs to really focus on FO pay too. We need quality guys.
12-17-2015, 05:29 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Posts: 387
Originally Posted by rvr1800
No but you were brought in to our peer set at JetBlue on our last "contract" and directly brought down our rates because of that. That is a fact. But that is fine as long as you can recognize that that is a problem for everyone.
The only reason I chime in is to point out that the peer group you use in contract negotiations is NEGOTIATED. The company says "Spirit and Frontier" and ALPA had best say "American and SWA". Eventually you meet in the middle somewhere.
That the ugly house down the block exists and affects your property value may be a fact, but they may scrape it and build one that makes yours look like a POS.
It is all a big cycle that's been going on for years. The difference seems to be the public forums for venting, the age 65 rule having recently stalled so many plans (you were warned not to bet your mortgages on) and the entitled mentality so pervasive in every facet of today's society.
Rant over. Good luck with your contract!
12-17-2015, 05:35 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 166
Originally Posted by Gunga Din
Why would the company really care if they've got high turn over? Assuming the company can keep pilots long enough to recoup their initial training costs;
1) keeps average wages way down
2) allows them to advertise quick upgrades and 3) keeps the any real culture and solidarity at a minimum.
As long as we pay above RJ Fo or CFI wages the bottom of the barrel will still apply. That's why NC needs to really focus on FO pay too. We need quality guys.
1) keeps average wages way down
2) allows them to advertise quick upgrades and 3) keeps the any real culture and solidarity at a minimum.
As long as we pay above RJ Fo or CFI wages the bottom of the barrel will still apply. That's why NC needs to really focus on FO pay too. We need quality guys.
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