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Old 02-20-2008, 05:36 PM   #51  
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Originally Posted by newKnow View Post
I guess DOH whould take care of that. That's my point. Whenever that happens, someone is ****ed forever.

Understand, I also think that there have to be some adjustments for DOH for some inequities that are present with that as well.
I agree.
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Old 02-20-2008, 05:52 PM   #52  
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How many has NWA hired post-BK up to today, i.e. 2007 and this year?

I expect something like DOH as a DL newhire, because both companies started hiring in the same year (last year), depending how long and how many pilots the two companies continue to hire separately in the future, nwa newhire may have an advantage considering they will have more pilots behind them (DL has been hiring for huge int'l growth, NWA has been hiring for 2% growth (from my nwa interview) and also from higher utilization of the 9 side. Just some observations...
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Old 02-20-2008, 05:57 PM   #53  
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NW has hired what like maybe a couple hundred new guys? We put almost 500 on property last year. Can you seriously suggest that a NW guy hired last month should be senior to a Delta guy hired in OCT 07, Aug 07? June 07?
I don't think a guy hired last month would be ratioed in with a june07 but maybe dec07.

it all depends on how they would fall in line with some kind of ratio. just because delta started hiring 8 months before nwa should they have 30 years of benefit? would it be right for people who were to retire in the top 5 at nwa to end up in the 300-500 range. that doesn't seem like a fair deal to them just because delta started their hiring a little sooner than nwa.

if you use your logic on the new hires you should also use that logic on the senior pilots because I'm sure that NWA has guys who have been around longer than the senior delta guys.

new hire nwa pilots were expecting a lot of retirements compared to delta. the delta new hires will also benefit from the older pilot group at nwa.

Last edited by Eric Stratton; 02-20-2008 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 02-20-2008, 05:57 PM   #54  
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The only problem with that is newbs at NWA have FAR better seniority progression over the next 10 years than DAL newbs. Most of us chose NWA because of the seniority progression. This whole thing should go based on career expectations. If you were set to retire at #100 for retirement at DAL thats very close to where you should be in a combined list. I am set to retire probably in the top 20 at NWA if we stay on our own. I tell you what lets do DOH and put up 38 year fences
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Old 02-20-2008, 05:58 PM   #55  
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I don't think a guy hired last month would be ratioed in with a june07 but maybe dec07.

it all depends on how they would fall in line with some kind of ratio. just because delta started hiring 8 months before nwa should they have 30 years of benefit? would it be right for people who were to retire in the top 5 at nwa to end up in the 300-500 range. that doesn't seem like a fair deal to them just because delta started their hiring alittle sooner that nwa.

if you use your logic on the new hires you should also use that logic on the senior pilots because I'm sure that NWA has guys who have been around longer than the senior delta guys.

new hire nwa pilots were expecting a lot of retirements compared to delta. the delta new hires will also benefit from the older pilot group at nwa.
YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT!!
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Old 02-20-2008, 06:05 PM   #56  
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jdt30 -

Maybe. Maybe not. ALPA has kept a very tight lid on this - so who knows what the source is?
BIG READ-A MUST

THE ARTICLE IS GETTING THE RESPONSE IT WANTED
The firm that wrote this,

Ford & Harrison is a union busting law firm that airlines hire to stir up just this kind of thing. Do a search on "Flight Options" and Continental Airlines to see these tactics. (Delta's EVP of Human Resources if a founding father of Ford & Harrison, going there after "retiring" from destroying pilot benefits at Continental. They are MOST visible right now at Flight Options, but in the case of DL this guy takes an HR position, and can quietly disrupt everything.




Delta's EVP of HR, from Anti-Pilot Union-Busting Law Firm Ford & Harrison

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Delta's EVP of HR, Mike H. Campbell, from Anti-Pilot Union-Busting Law Firm Ford & Harrison
Just linked to this from an aviation news site, and noticed this...I am sure you DL & NWA guys are already well aware of what this company does... here's to hoping that a non-negotiable part of any agreement includes his resignation. Here at Flight Options they have helped our company's (mis) management drag the profession of our pilots from a great job, into a complete nightmare in a very short period of time. They are likely paid more to do so, than it would cost in acceptable pilot wages. "Human" Resources they are not, and operating under multiple screen names on the fractional boards FYI.
------------------------

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/busi...bios_0220.html

Company leaders: Who will decide

Published on: 02/19/08
Directors of Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines and Minneapolis-based Northwest Airlines are meeting this week to consider the pros and cons of combining. The board members will weigh efficiencies gained by being the world's largest airline against the complexities of joining unions and other employees, fleets, routes and operational systems. If they agree to move forward, a merger could be announced as soon as Thursday. Here is a who's who of decision makers:

DELTA EXECUTIVES
Richard Anderson, 52, became CEO in September, after five months on Delta's board. A lawyer and Texas native, he started at Continental Airlines in 1987. In 1990, he went to Northwest, where he was CEO from 2001-2004. He was an executive vice president of UnitedHealth Group before taking Delta's top post. He is expected to be CEO of a combined Delta-Northwest. But if he doesn't get the job, he is entitled to a potential payout of $14.1 million in stock and cash. He has said he would waive such compensation.

Edward Bastian, 50, president since September 2007 and chief financial officer since 2005. Oversaw Delta's restructuring under bankruptcy. Joined Delta in 1998, left in early 2005 to be CFO of Atlanta-based lighting maker Acuity Brands but returned in July 2005. Previously worked at PepsiCo and in the New York audit practice of accounting firm Price Waterhouse (now PricewaterhouseCoopers).

Mike H. Campbell, 59, executive vice president human resources, labor and communications, joined Delta in 2006 from Atlanta-based law firm Ford & Harrison, where he was a founding partner. Oversaw human resources and labor relations for Continental in the 1990s.
Stephen E. Gorman, 52, executive vice president of operations, joined Delta in December 2007 from Greyhound Lines, where he was CEO and credited with increasing revenue per mile by more than 30 percent. He also held executive posts at Krispy Kreme Doughnuts and Northwest Airlines, where he worked from 1996-2001.

Glen W. Hauenstein, 45, executive vice president of network and revenue management. Has overseen Delta's global fleet efficiency push. Joined Delta in 2005 from Alitalia, where he was chief commercial officer and chief operating officer. During his two years there, Alitalia's revenues grew by almost 20 percent while the fleet was reduced by more than 10 percent. He previously was senior vice president of network for Continental, where he started in 1987 as international controller.

THE DELTA BOARD
Any decision to pursue a merger needs approval of Delta's 10-member board, newly constituted by creditors when the airline emerged from bankruptcy in spring 2007. Anderson has a board seat; here are the others:
Daniel Carp, 59, joined board in 2007, nonexecutive board chairman. Retired Eastman Kodak chief executive, known for prodding Kodak to start its transformation to digital.
John Brinzo, 66, joined 2007, chairman of Cleveland-Cliffs, which mines and sells iron ore pellets.
Richard Goeltz, 65, joined 2007, retired vice chairman and chief financial officer of American Express, a major Delta vendor and financial backer during bankruptcy.
Eugene Davis, 49, joined 2007, chairman and CEO of Pirinate Consulting Group. Previously held top posts at Emerson Radio and Sport Supply Group.
Victor Lund, 60, joined 2007, former chairman and chief executive of American Stores, a supermarket chain.
Walter Massey, 69, joined 2007, former Morehouse College president and the only Atlantan among the new directors.
David Goode, 67, joined 1999, retired chairman of rail transportation company Norfolk Southern.
Paula Rosput Reynolds, 51, joined 2004, former AGL Resources chief, now CEO of Seattle-based insurer Safeco.
Kenneth Woodrow, 63, on board since 2004, retired vice chairman and president of retailer Target.


NORTHWEST EXECUTIVES
Douglas Steenland, 56, CEO since October 2004 and Northwest's president since April 2001. Led the airline through bankruptcy. In 2006, he was among airline executives who successfully lobbied Congress to change pension law to help them avoid defaulting pension plans. Joined Northwest in 1991 as deputy general counsel. Worked under Anderson when he was Northwest CEO. Also served in the Office of the General Counsel of the U.S. Department of Transportation. His potential payout if a merger knocks him out of the top post: $7.8 million in cash and benefits (plus $4.12 million in current value pension benefits).

Neal Cohen, 47, joined Northwest in 2005; currently executive vice president of international strategy and CEO of regional airlines; formerly CFO and a lead architect of the airline's wage and cost cuts during bankruptcy restructuring. He was CFO of US Airways from 2002-2004.

David M. Davis, 41, rejoined Northwest in 2005 and has been CFO since June 2007; formerly senior vice president of finance and controller for Northwest; previously was CFO of US Airways and held finance positions at both Delta and Northwest.

J. Timothy Griffin, 56, executive vice president-of marketing and distribution; joined Northwest in 1993 from Continental, where he was senior vice president of schedules and pricing. Spent four
years at American.

Andrew C. Roberts, 47, executive vice president of operations since October 2004; joined the company in September 1997 as the managing director of Minneapolis/St. Paul engine operations. Previously was general manager of Pratt & Whiney's jet engine manufacturing center in Columbus, Ga.

THE NORTHWEST BOARD
Northwest has a 12-member board, five of which came on in April 2007. Steenland has a board seat. Here are the others:
Roy Bostock, 67, chairman, joined board in 2005, newly named nonexecutive chairman of Yahoo; a principal of Sealedge Investments; former head of advertising firm MacManus Group.
David Brandon, 55, joined 2007, CEO of Domino's Pizza and former chief executive of coupon company Valassis.
Mike Durham, 57, joined 2007, CEO of consulting firm Cognizant Associates; formerly senior vice president and treasurer of American Airlines parent AMR Corp. and CFO of American; former CEO of travel distribution company Sabre; also on board of Atlanta-based natural gas distributor AGL Resources.
John Engler, 59, joined 2003, former three-term Michigan governor now CEO of National Association of Manufacturers.
Mickey Foret, 62, joined 2007, president of Aviation Consultants; was CFO of Northwest from 1998 to 2002 and former CEO of Northwest Airlines Cargo.
Robert L. Friedman, 64, joined 2002, chief administrative and legal officer of private equity firm Blackstone Group.
Doris Kearns Goodwin, 65, joined 1997, Pulitzer Prize-winning author and historian; was as an assistant to President Lyndon Johnson; taught at Harvard.
Jeffrey G. Katz, 52, joined 2005, CEO of educational tech company LeapFrog Enterprises; held CEO posts at travel Web site Orbitz and Swissair; spent 17 years at American Airlines.
James Postl, 61, joined 2007 as an independent director, former CEO of Pennzoil-Quaker State and executive at Nabisco and Pepsico.
Rodney Slater, 52, joined 2007, partner at Washington law and lobbying firm Patton Boggs; was U.S Secretary of Transportation from 1997-2001; also was director of the Federal Highway Administration.
William S. Zoller, 59, joined 2006, captain of Northwest's pilots' union and a Northwest pilot for more than 25 years; previously served as an executive vice president of the Air Line Pilots Association, which also represents Delta pilots.

Compiled by Nisa Asokan and Scott Thurston

Sources: company Web sites, SEC documents, Who's Who in America, Standard & Poor's
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Old 02-20-2008, 07:36 PM   #57  
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The only problem with that is newbs at NWA have FAR better seniority progression over the next 10 years than DAL newbs.
I thought I posted the NWA retirements (from a NWA pilot) on another thread. It wasn't that great and certainly a smaller number than either airline's growth number and both airlines need to get to a staffing level that provides for flying 100% of the schedule (a number neither airline had last year).

As far as your final number, that depends on your age... and would you rather be #10 at the World's Largest Airline, or #3 at Delta? There will be more choices at the combined airline if it happens.

Internally and externally Delta management has been writing that they do not need this merger and if the job security and seniority of Delta employees (a point was made to include pilots this time) is not ensured the merger will NOT happen.

They seem perfectly happy to continue with their stand alone plan.

But hey - Steenland gets to keep his job - so I'm sure somebody's happy.
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Old 02-20-2008, 08:18 PM   #58  
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If you didn't hear it from your union reps...don't believe it. If you read it in the paper and you get yourself all spun up over it, you aren't very bright. BE PATIENT. They don't have the smoking BK gun to our head this time. If ALPA can't come up with an integration plan in time for the company, then tough. If both pilot groups don't benefit, then there isn't any real reason to support a merger. I'd rather see the negotiators take their time and get it right rather than rush to appease the companies and end up eating a [email protected] sandwich. All this he said, she said is very entertaining, but you shouldn't put any credence in it and it won't make one bit of difference. If you aren't on the negotiating committee, you don't know [email protected] Just chill and trust the guys doing the work to get it right (unless they are the red book reps). I for one would be content to continue without a merger. If only we could do that and lose Steenland.
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Old 02-20-2008, 08:50 PM   #59  
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If you didn't hear it from your union reps...don't believe it. If you read it in the paper and you get yourself all spun up over it, you aren't very bright. BE PATIENT. They don't have the smoking BK gun to our head this time. If ALPA can't come up with an integration plan in time for the company, then tough. If both pilot groups don't benefit, then there isn't any real reason to support a merger. I'd rather see the negotiators take their time and get it right rather than rush to appease the companies and end up eating a [email protected] sandwich. All this he said, she said is very entertaining, but you shouldn't put any credence in it and it won't make one bit of difference. If you aren't on the negotiating committee, you don't know [email protected] Just chill and trust the guys doing the work to get it right (unless they are the red book reps). I for one would be content to continue without a merger. If only we could do that and lose Steenland.
Very wise advice indeed. It is the scenario where you want to have your cake and eat it too! We all know mgmt can move ahead with the merger if they like, but they also know the prices they will pay in the future, i.e. east/west us airway. So it's time to regain what we've given up for the past 7 years and rebuild this career we all love. I totally agree that if we can't please both pilot group, then this merger probably shouldn't happen.

On another point, if the only thing this merger accomplishes is to "promote" Steenland out of his current post, i think it is a success already
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Old 02-20-2008, 10:24 PM   #60  
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I have the best idea yet. Let's not merge and watch what the One World alliance does to Delta after the Open Skies agreement. My bets are on CAL and AMR.
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