DAL & NWA Pilots To Take Contract to Management on May 29th
05-30-2008, 10:39 PM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Originally Posted by sailingfun
Carl, Excepting that 35 to 38 year old inefficient aircraft are going to be parked does not portray NWA in a bad light. Its a simply reality. I have listened in two lounge briefs where management has discussed the aircraft. They are history. There will not be a DC-9 in the fleet within 36 months of the merger. Aircraft get retired all the time. Its the nature of the beast. Before the Delta/NWA merger was even announced you guys were phasing them out fast. You had 160 less then 3 years ago. I think you have about 80 today and you are parking a couple each month. These are the oldest most fuel inefficient aircraft at any major airline. There is going to be a major domestic pull down of flying by all US airlines. Greater then what is already been put out. Delta had DC-9's that they retired in the early 90's because of maintenance costs and fuel burn. They just retired 54 737-200's all built after 1983 for the same reason. The 737's were replaced with E-170's. My point is that we need to focus on that not happening with the nines and making sure the replacement flying is recaptured by the mainline. The nines are gone. They were going when you were a standalone airline and they are going with the merger. Who gets the replacement flying is the question.
Considering that the 9's represent the 100 seat market, if the 9's do get retired, what are they going to be replaced with? Basically I asking you to find out the earliest an airline can expect delivery of a brand new EMB-195 (try 50-75 of them). Or, do you think the company will just allow a gap in aircraft sizes to be between 70 seaters and 125 seaters with noting in between? While Northwest is parking many of the DC-9's, they are not retiring all of them.
To suggest a retirement of that many mainline airplanes when the company has:
- 3 billion dollars in cash,
-49% of Midwest Express,
-a narrowbody floor (per our crappy contract),
-a pilot group that feels it has given waaay to much to begin with,
-36 new RJ's for Mesaba, and
-new EMB-170's for Compass arriving every month,
is ridiculous.
In light of the above facts, for you to think that Northwest pilots would have allowed the company to park ALL the DC-9's means you don't know us very well....
New K Now
05-30-2008, 11:54 PM
#62
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by newKnow
Sailing,
Considering that the 9's represent the 100 seat market, if the 9's do get retired, what are they going to be replaced with? Basically I asking you to find out the earliest an airline can expect delivery of a brand new EMB-195 (try 50-75 of them). Or, do you think the company will just allow a gap in aircraft sizes to be between 70 seaters and 125 seaters with noting in between? While Northwest is parking many of the DC-9's, they are not retiring all of them.
To suggest a retirement of that many mainline airplanes when the company has:
- 3 billion dollars in cash,
-49% of Midwest Express,
-a narrowbody floor (per our crappy contract),
-a pilot group that feels it has given waaay to much to begin with,
-36 new RJ's for Mesaba, and
-new EMB-170's for Compass arriving every month,
is ridiculous.
In light of the above facts, for you to think that Northwest pilots would have allowed the company to park ALL the DC-9's means you don't know us very well....
New K Now
Considering that the 9's represent the 100 seat market, if the 9's do get retired, what are they going to be replaced with? Basically I asking you to find out the earliest an airline can expect delivery of a brand new EMB-195 (try 50-75 of them). Or, do you think the company will just allow a gap in aircraft sizes to be between 70 seaters and 125 seaters with noting in between? While Northwest is parking many of the DC-9's, they are not retiring all of them.
To suggest a retirement of that many mainline airplanes when the company has:
- 3 billion dollars in cash,
-49% of Midwest Express,
-a narrowbody floor (per our crappy contract),
-a pilot group that feels it has given waaay to much to begin with,
-36 new RJ's for Mesaba, and
-new EMB-170's for Compass arriving every month,
is ridiculous.
In light of the above facts, for you to think that Northwest pilots would have allowed the company to park ALL the DC-9's means you don't know us very well....
New K Now
very well said!!!
05-31-2008, 03:42 AM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Carl, Delta has more then enough RJ capacity to replace the nines over the next 3 years. They have a mix of CRJ-900's and E-170 on order. As you pointed out in your post NWA also has DC-9 replacement aircraft coming. In addition Delta has 737-700's coming that could be used in the some of the markets.
I heard all the same things you are saying from Delta pilots when the 737-200 were going away. No way Delta could do, They have to have a 100 seat aircraft ect.... They did and did it fast!!
George
I heard all the same things you are saying from Delta pilots when the 737-200 were going away. No way Delta could do, They have to have a 100 seat aircraft ect.... They did and did it fast!!
George
Last edited by sailingfun; 05-31-2008 at 03:47 AM.
05-31-2008, 03:45 AM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
The narrow body floor on your contract will be a important and critical issue. It should give some negotiating leverage to procure the replacement flying at the mainline. I understand the floor was to be set sometime around May. Has it been set and what is the floor verses your current number of aircraft. When NWA annouced the reduction down to 68 aircraft by the end of the year did that comply with the floor?
05-31-2008, 05:59 AM
#65
Retired
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: whale wrangler
Posts: 3,527
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
I am increasingly of the belief that it is not the right move for both airlines. I've listened to Gary Kelly, Bob Crandall, Gordon Bethune and other airline analysts, and they all express their fear of spending 1 Billion dollars on combining two companies from the cash coffers that should probably be carefully guarded in this environment. It's a lot of money to spend on painting airplanes and moving headquarters' etc. Long term, it is probably a good thing. But you don't get to live in the long term if you die in the short term.
Some awfully smart people are saying they would not do it at this time, and I find myself agreeing with a lot of their logic.
Carl
Some awfully smart people are saying they would not do it at this time, and I find myself agreeing with a lot of their logic.
Carl
Haste makes waste so to say and as far as the 9,s are concerned they are all payed off yes ?So I figure they still save money because they have no payments on them just fuel and mx .
BTW carl how many whales do you guys own outright?
Be real crazy not to keep them after the merger especially if they are making money .
As for painting the a/c ,why not just put a small DAL logo on NWA a/c and vice versa ,pax really dont care what an a/c looks like outside so why even bother wasting the money on repainting said a/c .
Just my 3 cents .
05-31-2008, 06:01 AM
#66
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
I am increasingly of the belief that it is not the right move for both airlines. I've listened to Gary Kelly, Bob Crandall, Gordon Bethune and other airline analysts, and they all express their fear of spending 1 Billion dollars on combining two companies from the cash coffers that should probably be carefully guarded in this environment. It's a lot of money to spend on painting airplanes and moving headquarters' etc. Long term, it is probably a good thing. But you don't get to live in the long term if you die in the short term.
Some awfully smart people are saying they would not do it at this time, and I find myself agreeing with a lot of their logic.
Carl
Some awfully smart people are saying they would not do it at this time, and I find myself agreeing with a lot of their logic.
Carl
Who cares what these men think. None of them want to compete against a powerful airline. Heck Bethune was touting mergers just a few months ago. He represents a hedge fund that wanted a DAL/UAL deal.
Did he believe that there would be no costs or fuel would not go up?
Bethune is not a genius, I worked at CAL and had dinner with him. He is refreshing because he doesn't talk like a ceo, swears a lot, former Navy mechanic etc, but the guy running the show now, Kellner, was the brains behind the turnaround.
The DAL/NWA deal will eventually be good, Air France is a good airline and eventually may own the whole lot of us. At least if things begin to turn for the worst, not that they are not bad already, Air France may be willing to kick in a few bucks to protect the alliance.
They express fear about spending money on a merger that will create the worlds largest carrier and has very little overlap? Sounds like jealousy to me, sour grapes, etc
When has a ceo had fear about spending other peoples money?Stop listening to the analysts. If we ever fly together, we won't ask the FA's for there opinion, I know they can be very smart people too. Lets just go around the thunderstorm and get to the layover and have a cold one
Stop worrying............
05-31-2008, 06:32 AM
#67
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by hiflyer
Air France is a good airline and eventually may own the whole lot of us.
Oh, and I like shaved legs and pits
Ciao!
05-31-2008, 06:42 AM
#68
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by sailingfun
Carl, Delta has more then enough RJ capacity to replace the nines over the next 3 years. They have a mix of CRJ-900's and E-170 on order.
Originally Posted by sailingfun
As you pointed out in your post NWA also has DC-9 replacement aircraft coming.
Carl
05-31-2008, 06:46 AM
#69
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by sailingfun
The narrow body floor on your contract will be a important and critical issue. It should give some negotiating leverage to procure the replacement flying at the mainline. I understand the floor was to be set sometime around May. Has it been set and what is the floor verses your current number of aircraft. When NWA annouced the reduction down to 68 aircraft by the end of the year did that comply with the floor?
Carl
05-31-2008, 07:03 AM
#70
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by DYNASTY HVY
I have no dog in this hunt but I have to agree with the capt here and to spend that kind of money in this enviro is risky to say the least.
Haste makes waste so to say and as far as the 9,s are concerned they are all payed off yes ?So I figure they still save money because they have no payments on them just fuel and mx .
Haste makes waste so to say and as far as the 9,s are concerned they are all payed off yes ?So I figure they still save money because they have no payments on them just fuel and mx .
Originally Posted by DYNASTY HVY
BTW carl how many whales do you guys own outright?
Originally Posted by DYNASTY HVY
Be real crazy not to keep them after the merger especially if they are making money .
As for painting the a/c ,why not just put a small DAL logo on NWA a/c and vice versa ,pax really dont care what an a/c looks like outside so why even bother wasting the money on repainting said a/c .
Just my 3 cents .
As for painting the a/c ,why not just put a small DAL logo on NWA a/c and vice versa ,pax really dont care what an a/c looks like outside so why even bother wasting the money on repainting said a/c .
Just my 3 cents .
Carl
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
