acl65pilot

The argument is that LOA 19 is our either way. What do we have to gain by voting for this before knowing where we sit on the SLI, what is the rush. The pace is really what is scarring the DAL group. I see the argument and know that it has merit, my rhetorical question is why not vote for it?
Read everything and make an informed decision. I do hate the fact that it is four years long. If we are to swallow four years there should at least be a COLA+ attached to the end of it.

Maddoggin

Hey ACL

have you heard about the hiring rumor for the fall being canceled. How about the AE for Aug.

acl65pilot

I saw it from a friend of mine on another board, but I have been flying and have not been able to confirm or deny it. Fact is that I am sure that there will be a lot coming out in ensuing weeks.

If you read the TFA and the JPWA there are some issues with having an open AE for all prior for bid period five for the NWA folks. I guess they could bid for the 777 positions but not fill them until a later date. I have more on that, but read it first. All of it. Every document.

As for the AE. I have not heard of it being moved. But this is a very fluid environment and it would not surprise me if it moved to a date that would allow all to bid for it.

There are things that may be in play here, that we will see in the coming months. I will have to let them play out. They are only my thoughts. Just start connecting dots and somethings might make sense.

slowplay

ACL,

I want C2K plus COLA. Why are you selling us so short?

You could ask the AAI guys what their negative 11% COLA request from management is like. Or the Midwest guys losing 33% of their flying and 50% of their pay. Or Aloha, ATA, Champion, MaxJet, EOS, SkyBus, Gemini....has Frontier taken paycuts yet?

Of course we could point to the paragon of Union virtue, APA, and see what their bargaining strategy for "just a COLA" has brought them. In fact, as I look around I don't see anybody else getting the level of restoration that this TA provides. I see UAL with 950 fewer pilots (understating the 1400 notices that went out) and ALPA trying to mitigate, AMR with 300 on top of the 2000 already out, CAL trying to mitigate, AirTran with 180, LCC with 300. It's an UGLY picture

I know you generally support this merger. Demanding more in this economic environment won't work. The negotiators got substantial improvements (Over 20% for DAL, 30% for NWA) and took all there was to get.

But when economic times turn around, don't be asking for no COLA. Demand restoration. If this new company turns highly profitable in 2-3 years, they'll have enough cash to afford it. If it doesn't, we'll get to visit what every other airline is going through...again.

finis72

I thought we still had profit sharing,i.e. if the company does really well in a couple of years then through profit sharing so will we.
Listen to the pros and cons then vote how you feel.My personal opinion is this is ok for the envoirnment we're in.I would hate to be remembered like AA was when they voted down their rreally nice payrates right before 9-11.Then we would surpass them as the "Biggest Losers'.

acl65pilot

FINIS
Fact is that I am for this agreement. I am a yes vote. Like I have said. If every pilot here read all of the supporting documents, the TFA all of the MOA's etc, they would realize that no matter what happens this deal is a good one for the gander. Granted there are risks involved in every deal. More so at the bottom of the list. The SLI will come to pass whether we vote yes or no on the JPWA. The TFA et al show that the course is set for a fair fight for both sides. Voting no only will not give the NWA guys their share,(which I am sure they will get either way), and possibly send us the way of US Air. No one wants that.
Overall it is a good document and there are some marginal improvements that will make this a better place to work. Like I have said. Look down the road, not front of you.

Superpilot92

great post and very accurate

acl65pilot

FWIW, there is a possibility that DAL may not hire this fall. They may revise it. If they would do that, it shows commitment to all of the NWA folks to keep them on property v/s sending them to Compass and hiring new guys to fill seats that should be theirs in a SLI.
If we do in fact do that in cancel the AE, it is to make sure that with a displacement, there are less training events, and a mitigation of any furloughs. Once again if it is true, this is signs of the old Delta.

tsquare

I don't disagree with anything you say above except one. Anderson has said that LOA 19 gave him all the tools he needed to capture the synergies in the merger. MY problem with this TA is that is it extremely weak. For example. YOUR... NWA's commuting policy is gone. THAT sucks in my book. They will TRY to get us internet in our layover hotels... TRY... didn't say WILL.. it sez try. The QOL "improvements" here are non existant. NWA guys win big time in the pay department, and I have no problem with that because we have better pay to start with. So that's a non issue. But personally I see nothing in this abortion that makes me want to rush right out and vote yes at this moment other than the three panel arbitrator thingy.. and I still haven't wrapped my head around the ramifications of voting no would have on that. All in all, this thing may well stink worse than the coming November election...and I wouldn't believe that possible

johnso29

I think RA realized the inaccuracy of that statement. He very well knows that LOA 19 will only give him the synergies he needs for the merger to be successful IF the NWA pilots are included. If we are operating on two seperate contracts, LOA 19 won't help at all. Neither will the unrestricted cash that is being brought to the table.

I agree that there are weak points in the TA, I too saw the laungauge of "try to get internet". I think they canned our commuting policy because the staffing levels at DAL are much higher, making it a little less critical for the new DAL pilots to get to work. The differences in sick pay also make it harder for someone to just blow off a miscommute.(cough, cough) Then again, it may be it was just something we just had to give up to gain something else. I think I can understand how this TA can be a little hard for DAL guys to swallow, mainly because NWA guys have such a pay hike. Unfortunately, thats just the way it will work because NWA guys are working off a BK contract handed to us by a BK judge. We just can't have equal pay hikes.

All in all, I too see some problems with QOL issues in this TA, but given the current state of the industry I find it very hard to believe that we could get much better. This TA is negotiated, they give somewhere, we give somewhere. I just can't see us having any more leverage to get anymore...right now. I still wish the best for us all.