Ferd149

Is the "call in honest" in the NWA contract? When it first came out, it was just a "policy" that Ed Davidson (the DTW Chief Pilot) got the VP of Flight Ops (back when he was a real pilot) to sign. If it's in the contract, it was put in later so maybe there is still hope.

Oh by the way, that is how the hats became optional and the leather jacket added too......just a stroke of the pen in the Flight Ops Manual by "Delete Pete".

Ferd,

tsquare

I'm gonna tell you the same thing I tell the guys over on our forums. I have never brought pay into this. It is all about QOL.. and this POS does nothing to better that aspect of our careers. If this TA is really that important.. as Carl's alter ego would say "How about .. you know.. a little somethin for the effort" ... and I will already have total consciousness on my deathbed thank you... There are QOL issues that cost the company little if anything at all that haven't been discussed here. A long time ago, a wise old captain told me.. "In up times you talk about money.. in down times you talk about QOL" I see nothing to indicate that that has been accomplished here.

Superpilot92

Everyone needs to just read ALL the information that is being provided by the MECs. They did a good job considering what we have to work with IMHO>

Carl Spackler

First of all, Gunga Galunga.

Secondly, I understand your problems with the TA. I really agree with that wise old Captain and his quote also. I've been trying to put myself in Anderson's shoes right now as I develop my next moves on the chess board should my pilots really vote this TA down. Here is what I would think HE is thinking:

1. An enormous sense of betrayal. Anderson would probably feel stabbed in the back by signing off on LOA 19 to secure DAL pilot's gains and show the Wall Street crowd he is serious about merging the two airlines, just to have that same group of pilots vote down a TA that will split the two pilot groups and endanger the synergies he has promised the investment community.

2. A viable "response" to voting down the TA would be to delay the Date of Corporate Closing (DCC) - or whatever the term that was used as the trigger for LOA 19. By delaying the activation of LOA 19, neither pilot group sees any gains and Delta saves money at a crucial time. DOJ due diligence and ultimate approval can still take place, but Delta can simply SAY: "even though we are operating as a combined carrier, we don't consider ourselves CLOSED until the single operating certificate" or any other number of excuses/rationalizations.

3. Wait a suitable period of time for DALPA to scold its members and remind them they would already be seeing pay raises if they were all not so stubborn.

4. Try again for another TA after having gained months of not having to pay LOA 19 wages or TA wages.

Just some loose thoughts from a budding assistant greenskeeper.

Carl

tsquare

Salient points. Personally I have a difficult time feeling much for Mr. Anderson since he made more this week than you will make all year. I find that absolutely abhorrent personally, but it is neither here nor there. If I wanted to make that kind of coin, I should have checked CEO on my application instead of hourly wage earner. Some things in this industry will never change. Executives are ALWAYS entitled to make tons of cash even if the company loses money. But I digress... all in all, I do not like this POS. However that being said, I am fairly confident that it will pass... everything always does at DAL... and we will all have to live with the contract for 6 or 7 years. (by the time management starts dragging it's feet in 2012) And then I am sure they will have some other crisis that will keep us down.

sailingfun

Carl, I would read LOA 19. There are protections against what you mention as Anderson options including the requirement for full retro pay back to 1 Jan regardless of when the DCC occurs. I am not sure why NWA pilots see a Delta no vote as a vote against them. A no vote is a vote saying we want a better quality of life for all pilots NWA and Delta. I have still not made a final choice on my vote. I will attend a road show and then make up my mind. If I vote no however its to improve the life of every Delta pilot now and in the future which includes NWA.

Carl Spackler

If what you say is right and there is no way to stop LOA 19 even if Delta doesn't close the merger, then I guess Anderson wouldn't have that option.

The reason voting against the TA would make for interesting times would be that (apparently) LOA 19 kicks in no matter what happens. That means a nice pay bump for Delta pilots. Voting against the TA means status quo LOA 19 pay for Delta pilots, but keeps NWA pilots at the lower NWA pay scales post merger. Unless I'm missing something, a NO vote on the TA brings us back to two different pay scales possibly after the merger.

Carl

Superpilot92

5. Anderson gives the now cooperating NWA group its own version of LOA 19 but with the gains on the JPWA. The SLI happens the same way regardless of the vote. DAL moves planes around as it feels necessary all while the DAL pilot group loses its great relationship with RA. This also further divides the NWA/DAL pilot group possibly ruining the chances of keeping this from turning into a mess like USAIR.

I think one thing we can agree on is that we need to all get informed and go to the roadshows before anyone decides what their vote will be. Some of you are saying you have already decided on your votes before you have read all the material or gone to the roadshows. Negotiating leverage goes down more and more each day fuel goes up. this deal isnt bad all things considered. I think we can agree we all want a strong New Delta that can give all of us the best shot at stability in this crazy industry. Vote as you want but at least get informed before making judgement and hope this doesnt turn into a disaster of a company like USAIR.

Superpilot92

The really interesting thing is that the SLI will get done the same way regardless and eventually we will all be DAL pilots under 1 contract but with no more negotiating power. Voting No does nothing imho but produce bad blood. voting yes keeps a good relationship with mgmt, allows the immediate synergies, and gives ALL of us added pay and benefits.

Call it koolaid if you want but its a pretty rational stance imho.

Scoop

Carl,
As your other alter ego says "Thats the fact Jack!"

LOA 19 kicks in 01 January 2009 even if DCC is later. However I would consider, as I am sure most DAL pilots would, operating two different payscales as a blown opportunity for both MEC's and a disaster in the making. The last thing we as DAL pilots should want is for you guys to be cheaper to operate, not to mention being PO'd for the next 25 years.
You guys have seen the DAL MEC true to its word seek a joint contract ASAP - like they said, and like a lot of NW pilots said they wouldn't. I believed my MEC then and I believe them know. Unfortunatley I am still troubled by the earlier reports from my same (now mostly agreed reliable MEC) that NW tried to claim close to the first 2000 spots on the list and hose the DAL pilots accordingly - as a mid seniority FO thats not something you forget.

Superpilot - you keep saying how we should continue to believe and trust the DAL MEC - does this include the reports about the earlier failed SLI negotiations?

By the way If I were King it would be top five spots NW guys - next 8 spots DAL guys next 5 NW next 8 DAL.....until the list is done. No Issac Newton differential equations required - no 26 hearings for the next 25 years, just 13000 ****ed of pilots for a few years- and then we conquer the world!

Tough crap about your retirements ,- tough crap about our orders, thats the list live with it. 5 year fences would also be nice but too much to hope for.

Scoop

For those still curious about the other alter-ego, its from Stripes.