Mesa
10-28-2013 | 02:15 PM
#431
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,539
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From: 175 Left
First, to simplify the equation, I used Jan 1 2013 approx. numbers. Before any new aircraft arrived and before any hiring started. So 60 and 480ish. Yes.
Secondly, currently we have 70 airplanes and about 720 pilots on the seniority list. I could not break down the numbers in layman's terms with using today current numbers. It would be hard to account for the 200 that have been hired for either the 9 900s or the new rest rules.
So yes, 60 airplanes and 480ish must be the basis for the equation.
10-28-2013 | 02:18 PM
#432
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,539
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From: 175 Left
Correct me if I'm wrong prior121, but the way I read the CBA, there are only 3 ways to the 175s.
1. Selected as one of the thirty initial cadre check airman.
2. Upgrade into it from any FO spot.
3. New hire FO.
Thats it! Right? It is considered "equal" equipment @ 76 seat pay thereby creating a fence between crj and erj.
Of course they can waive any rule but management already went to the trouble to spell out in that first email that bidding rights would be governed by the CBA
I hope they let people move freely but I don't see it because training costs would rise.
1. Selected as one of the thirty initial cadre check airman.
2. Upgrade into it from any FO spot.
3. New hire FO.
Thats it! Right? It is considered "equal" equipment @ 76 seat pay thereby creating a fence between crj and erj.
Of course they can waive any rule but management already went to the trouble to spell out in that first email that bidding rights would be governed by the CBA
I hope they let people move freely but I don't see it because training costs would rise.
Either way, whether you bid into it as an F/O to F/O or you are awarded it as CA, the amount of new hire pilots and amount of upgrades will stay the same.
10-28-2013 | 02:32 PM
#433
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 223
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First, to simplify the equation, I used Jan 1 2013 approx. numbers. Before any new aircraft arrived and before any hiring started. So 60 and 480ish. Yes.
Secondly, currently we have 70 airplanes and about 720 pilots on the seniority list. I could not break down the numbers in layman's terms with using today current numbers. It would be hard to account for the 200 that have been hired for either the 9 900s or the new rest rules.
So yes, 60 airplanes and 480ish must be the basis for the equation.
Secondly, currently we have 70 airplanes and about 720 pilots on the seniority list. I could not break down the numbers in layman's terms with using today current numbers. It would be hard to account for the 200 that have been hired for either the 9 900s or the new rest rules.
So yes, 60 airplanes and 480ish must be the basis for the equation.
10-28-2013 | 03:08 PM
#434
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 0
From: 175 Left
First, to simplify the equation, I used Jan 1 2013 approx. numbers. Before any new aircraft arrived and before any hiring started. So 60 and 480ish. Yes.
Secondly, currently we have 70 airplanes and about 720 pilots on the seniority list. I could not break down the numbers in layman's terms with using today current numbers. It would be hard to account for the 200 that have been hired for either the 9 900s or the new rest rules.
So yes, 60 airplanes and 480ish must be the basis for the equation.
Secondly, currently we have 70 airplanes and about 720 pilots on the seniority list. I could not break down the numbers in layman's terms with using today current numbers. It would be hard to account for the 200 that have been hired for either the 9 900s or the new rest rules.
So yes, 60 airplanes and 480ish must be the basis for the equation.
10-28-2013 | 03:17 PM
#435
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,648
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Reduction of older airframes? What are you talking about? Our 700s have been extended through 2019. Our 900s are through 2021. We have no 50 seaters to get rid of. They are all gone. (Besides the FOUR in Hawaii) We ARE a lean operation.
You know nothing about Mesa, you come on here spewing facts about things you're not educated on. You don't see me in the ExpressJet, GoJet, Compass, SkyWest Etc forums putting in my 2 cents. I am not educated on the internal working/happenings of those airlines.
"Magical" quick upgrade? What is magical about it? That adjective makes zero sense. There's math about what is happening here and what will continue to happen. Nothing magical.
You know nothing about Mesa, you come on here spewing facts about things you're not educated on. You don't see me in the ExpressJet, GoJet, Compass, SkyWest Etc forums putting in my 2 cents. I am not educated on the internal working/happenings of those airlines.
"Magical" quick upgrade? What is magical about it? That adjective makes zero sense. There's math about what is happening here and what will continue to happen. Nothing magical.
10-28-2013 | 03:35 PM
#436
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,539
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From: 175 Left
I will be shocked if Mesa or any regional for that matter can staff additional flying. The regional pool is dry and not getting better. You can count all this growth before it happens at your own peril. A lot of grand plans and great ideas have been crushed by this industry.
Rah is still turning away 50% of those they interview. My source: close friend is on the interview board/panel.
10-28-2013 | 04:48 PM
#437
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Joined: Jan 2013
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The ideas you have about getting quick upgrades and moving on are a thing that was true well over a decade ago. Have there been people hired in the 2000s? Yes, but few and far between. You will spend a large portion of your career at a regional, and if Mesa's bases and contract are good for you, then I wish you every success. If you're going somewhere with the get in get out mentality though and banking on that quick upgrade you're making a foolish mistake.
A lot of people don't understand that if we stood up for ourselves at the regional level and refused to work for substandard wages, pay would have to increase, thus increasing the cost of doing business at the regional level. This would force more flying back to the mainline and get more of us hired faster.
I don't have anything against Mesa per se. If I lived in Phoenix I may consider them a viable option. The problem I have is with your backwards views and disingenuous advice you give perspective new hires.
10-28-2013 | 05:38 PM
#438
Thread Starter
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 177
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From: Courtroom
Like I said you've got it all figured out, nothing but rainbows and unicorns for you.
The ideas you have about getting quick upgrades and moving on are a thing that was true well over a decade ago. Have there been people hired in the 2000s? Yes, but few and far between. You will spend a large portion of your career at a regional, and if Mesa's bases and contract are good for you, then I wish you every success. If you're going somewhere with the get in get out mentality though and banking on that quick upgrade you're making a foolish mistake.
A lot of people don't understand that if we stood up for ourselves at the regional level and refused to work for substandard wages, pay would have to increase, thus increasing the cost of doing business at the regional level. This would force more flying back to the mainline and get more of us hired faster.
I don't have anything against Mesa per se. If I lived in Phoenix I may consider them a viable option. The problem I have is with your backwards views and disingenuous advice you give perspective new hires.
The ideas you have about getting quick upgrades and moving on are a thing that was true well over a decade ago. Have there been people hired in the 2000s? Yes, but few and far between. You will spend a large portion of your career at a regional, and if Mesa's bases and contract are good for you, then I wish you every success. If you're going somewhere with the get in get out mentality though and banking on that quick upgrade you're making a foolish mistake.
A lot of people don't understand that if we stood up for ourselves at the regional level and refused to work for substandard wages, pay would have to increase, thus increasing the cost of doing business at the regional level. This would force more flying back to the mainline and get more of us hired faster.
I don't have anything against Mesa per se. If I lived in Phoenix I may consider them a viable option. The problem I have is with your backwards views and disingenuous advice you give perspective new hires.
Mesa is expanding big time. Lots of people are going to upgrade. I think that's all prior121 is saying. He seems to be using a lot of facts with his arguments.
If you are looking for a quick upgrade, Mesa and Compass seem to be where to go right now.
Yes, lots of guys have gotten screwed and are looking at 7+ year upgrade times.
There have not been few and far between people going to mainline. I'd say 65-75% of my new hire class is at a Mainline Carrier.
Explain exactly "how we should stand up for ourselves and demand respectable wages." I'm all ears if you have a solution to this.
10-28-2013 | 05:55 PM
#439
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Joined: Jan 2013
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Bzzt, to be quite honest, I'm confused at why you are challenging him.
Mesa is expanding big time. Lots of people are going to upgrade. I think that's all prior121 is saying. He seems to be using a lot of facts with his arguments.
If you are looking for a quick upgrade, Mesa and Compass seem to be where to go right now.
Yes, lots of guys have gotten screwed and are looking at 7+ year upgrade times.
There have not been few and far between people going to mainline. I'd say 65-75% of my new hire class is at a Mainline Carrier.
Explain exactly "how we should stand up for ourselves and demand respectable wages." I'm all ears if you have a solution to this.
Mesa is expanding big time. Lots of people are going to upgrade. I think that's all prior121 is saying. He seems to be using a lot of facts with his arguments.
If you are looking for a quick upgrade, Mesa and Compass seem to be where to go right now.
Yes, lots of guys have gotten screwed and are looking at 7+ year upgrade times.
There have not been few and far between people going to mainline. I'd say 65-75% of my new hire class is at a Mainline Carrier.
Explain exactly "how we should stand up for ourselves and demand respectable wages." I'm all ears if you have a solution to this.
When was your new hire class? I can say for a certainty your class is an abnormal example unless it was incredibly small and at the very beginning of a regional hiring wave at least 10 years ago.
10-28-2013 | 09:56 PM
#440
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
Likes: 0
From: Poodle Whisperer
It's fairly simple really supply and demand would dictate higher compensation if people only went to regionals with the best contracts, the other regionals would have to increase their compensation or go out of business.
When was your new hire class? I can say for a certainty your class is an abnormal example unless it was incredibly small and at the very beginning of a regional hiring wave at least 10 years ago.
When was your new hire class? I can say for a certainty your class is an abnormal example unless it was incredibly small and at the very beginning of a regional hiring wave at least 10 years ago.
I got hired in October 2003. Upgrade in Feb 2005. Outta there in 2007. And I was not the quickest upgrade nor the quickest to a legacy! Not by a long shot, actually... Many of my peers followed a similar path!
The cycle shifts from carrier to carrier over time. given a certain window, I'd give advice to go to a certain carrier and it has been reasonably accurate. I don't think i'd ever advise someone to go to Mesa, but that time may be coming. Eagle? That has never been a carrier I would advise.
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