Xdashdriver

You know, you bring up excellent points, especially about LCR and reserve buffers and I agree with you completely. I'm an FO, so I know firsthand that the TA favors captains and there is very little in it for me if I get stuck in the right seat.

Here's my take: I don't get much if I vote yes, and I dont lose much if I vote no. That doesn't automtically make it a no vote, just so I can say "I voted no". If i thought there was more money on the table now or would be in the next couple of years, I would vote no in a heartbeat and wait it out. But that's not the reality of the situation as best as can be seen right now. So why vote yes? There are some improvements to the contract (alebit few) that can be built upon in 5 years hopefully. Hopefully I won't be in the right seat for the next 5 years (no guarantees I know), so I can take advantage of some of the better gains. I do have some questions about language and why it could not have been written more clearly that I hope to get answered, so I'm not counting myself a yes yet.

BeatNavy

The amount of available money/profit as shown by the books available to us isn't necessarily a fixed amount. Maybe it is a fixed amount to remain profitable, but that isn't my problem...that's the CEO/CFO/COO's problem. And as he/union has said, we won't be profitable for the next couple years. Companies operate much higher in the negative than we are and will be over the next couple years and still manage to pay their workers industry average, which I'm not even asking for. In a few years we will be back to profitable. He can still pay us now even if there is no short term profit. What would happen if we weren't filling classes now or if we stop filling classes soon, and worse, FO attrition picks up and we can't staff? He will HAVE to start paying more or the company will go under or shrink significantly. He (and by he I mean the stakeholders who he answers to) won't let that happen. He knows when he announces more flying that will temporarily curb the staffing shortfalls. Why take marginal gains now when we will have more leverage (inability to staff/retain pilots) in a year? I don't care how limited cash on hand is on a balance sheet, required labor costs can still go up if necessary and the company won't go under. They will fight tooth and nail and drag it out and resist it, but it's possible to get more improvements than we got. It's up to us to make it happen or roll over like the union did and capitulate to the man.

And btw, with their advertised 18 or less month upgrade, they shouldn't care about 3/4th year FO costs should they since we will all make captain pay by year 3 and on right? Also, my proposed cap on FO pay (40 for 4th year) is lower than the new TA gets. Keep in mind this is still what 2nd year FO pay is at SKW and other decent regionals, as are all my pay rates.

Man, talk about Stockholm syndrome.

Skyler02

"Yes, lets dump this money on retaining new people while our new hire classes are always full and we have a massive abundance of F.O.'s, and screw the rest of the pilot group."

If you truly believe that Mesa is "filling classes" and that they will continue to be able to fill classes after a severely sub-par TA is voted in, you are woefully uninformed. The end of the pilot recruit line has been reached. The "upgrade carrot" is gone since other airlines are already hiring Direct Entry Captains. Mesa is scraping the bottom of the barrel to find pilots as are all other regional airlines. I'm talking cold calls, no interview, "can you be in class next week", type recruiting. And the percentage of pilots making it through training is going down. Take the time to educate yourself on this.

If you have been flying for a while, I see how you could not be aware of the state of the industry. The number one challenge is finding and retaining QUALIFIED FO's willing to work for poverty level salaries. People just won't do it anymore. Vote in a sub-par contract, you will no longer be able to recruit, and Mesa will start parking airplanes. Just like Republic is already doing. Parked airplanes bring in no revenue while payments still have to be. It is a very bad financial equation. Mesa has to keep up with other regionals salaries and benefits, or start parking airplanes.

I do not understand how anyone can not see the writing on the wall. Voting in this TA will be the death of Mesa.

If there is "no money" to pay competitive salaries, then it's time for management to go back to their major partners and inform them "the environment has changed". It is no longer possible to recruit pilots at poverty level wages. So if the majors don't want to take the flying back and want to try to keep the regional model going for a little while longer, they will have to provide a bigger slice of the revenue pie to their partners to pay the pilots. We all know they are making billions.

Vote in this TA and watch how quickly Mesa falls apart.

deltajuliet

Another idea would be to just boost everyone's hourly rate by $2.50 - that's what 14.7 million over 5 years would get everyone. Or $2.00 and use the rest for other improvements. That said, I think that's still woefully underpaid and still wouldn't vote for that. Also, am I the only one that thinks Captains should all get paid the highest 900 rate for all equipment? If a guy flies out of Dulles, the job isn't any different than if he flies out of Texas or Arizona.

The pilot shortage alone will give all regional pilots substantially more leverage in the next few years. Look at the fundamental difference in management philosophy between Mesa and SkyWest. JO kept first year FO rates right where they were. SkyWest put the bulk of their new contract in first year rates, even adding a clause allowing management to increase it to $36.50 if they had trouble recruiting. What a contrast. SkyWest understands they'll have difficulty recruiting over the next couple years and the pilots will gain significantly more leverage. JO has been insulated from that thought process because he's been able to fill classes. What happens when he can't?

One other idea: regional unions shouldn't publicize how low their pay rates are relative to Horizon or SkyWest during negotiations. We should advertise to the public and Congress that we make 20-30% as much as the same position at United/Delta/American.

giggity37

I don't understand how there is language to allow capts to displace other capts. I can't see anyone on the Ejet voting for this. Every year most of the capts would be losing relative seniority and could be displaced to CRJ. Only people this benifits is the highest paid group the 1%.

iFlyRC

You all fail to realize that the new TA purposely gives very little to new hires. It is a strategic move. You are all correct, JO has already stated to the union that he "will do what ever it takes" to keep our classes full, and our hiring going. I am not worried about it. Now wouldn't it be a bummer if we turn this TA down, and he takes that 15 million and only gives it to the new guys as forms of bonuses? That is exactly what he will do if classes start to dry up. I'd rather lock that money in for the more senior guys, and let JO find the money for the new guys when he needs to.
I don't know what the future holds, but failing to learn from Envoy's horribly miscalculated emotional based decisions is incredibly stupid, and the people who sign their paychecks actually have gobs of money. This isn't rocket science.

Q400winner

Well Envoy received new airplanes, and flow from American. Not to mention their TA still puts Mesa to shame. Work rules and compensation. So was it a horrible decision?


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iFlyRC

Their first offer was much better that didn't include 700's going to PSA.

deltajuliet

More food for thought. The pilot group only gets $14.7 million over the next 5 years. A CRJ900 costs $39 million, and JO just bought how many?

Q400winner

Mesa is not in the same situation as Eagle. Of course, they don't have money for a better contract. In the future, they need to learn to make money so that their employees can keep up with the rest. If they cannot, they should close the doors. The only people that disagree with me are people that have spent 15+ years slaving away and are too afraid to make a jump or one that doesn't make sense now.


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