New Mesa Thread
02-22-2016 | 02:44 PM
#4711
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 106
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From: GIV
Check the union email.
The condensed version: The Dallas PBS runs for March have had their windows adjusted after the fact to a new window of 73 to 99 down from 76 to 99.
Now, the more lengthy reasoning. As all of you in the American system are aware, the productivity levels of the flying being assigned by American are less than ideal. The pairings we are able to produce consistently average out to around 4 1/2 hours per day. This results in an average 4-day pairing credit of somewhere around 17 hours. Compounding the issue, most of the flying out of DFW is 4-day pairings (approximately 80%).
This leads to a math problem any time we are operating with a 30-day month. Contractually, you cannot have less than 11 days off. If you follow through on the math, this means 4-day trips divided into 19 days of work only allows for 4 of those trips to be legally assigned out. Obviously, there are exceptions that assist line building in the form of carry-in/carry-out pairings, vacations, AQP, etc. These exceptions fall more into the minority than the majority. As such, a large portion of the base will have a very hard time reaching the 76-hour target in a 30-day month.
We have been lucky. The last few months have had either 31-day months or reduced schedule flying allowing for most of these issues to offset themselves. Unfortunately, we were not so lucky in March. Initial attempts at runs resulted in upwards of 1600 hours of flying unable to be assigned and close to 60 pilots being put on reserve as a result. In the past, turning on unstacking would help fix this problem with a reasonable trade-off. For March, turning unstacking on resulted in the bottom 1/3 of the base having their entire schedule awarded via unstacking and a huge increase in SLG affected pilots.
...
With the help of the MEC Officers and the Senior Director of Planning and Manpower we came to an agreement to produce runs based off a 73-hour minimum window. This allowed DFW to award out properly instead of unstacking a large portion of the pilots in base and leaving a huge amount of flying uncovered. Our agreement also covered that any pilot receiving a line less than 75.83 hours would be paid for 75.83 hours.
Now, the more lengthy reasoning. As all of you in the American system are aware, the productivity levels of the flying being assigned by American are less than ideal. The pairings we are able to produce consistently average out to around 4 1/2 hours per day. This results in an average 4-day pairing credit of somewhere around 17 hours. Compounding the issue, most of the flying out of DFW is 4-day pairings (approximately 80%).
This leads to a math problem any time we are operating with a 30-day month. Contractually, you cannot have less than 11 days off. If you follow through on the math, this means 4-day trips divided into 19 days of work only allows for 4 of those trips to be legally assigned out. Obviously, there are exceptions that assist line building in the form of carry-in/carry-out pairings, vacations, AQP, etc. These exceptions fall more into the minority than the majority. As such, a large portion of the base will have a very hard time reaching the 76-hour target in a 30-day month.
We have been lucky. The last few months have had either 31-day months or reduced schedule flying allowing for most of these issues to offset themselves. Unfortunately, we were not so lucky in March. Initial attempts at runs resulted in upwards of 1600 hours of flying unable to be assigned and close to 60 pilots being put on reserve as a result. In the past, turning on unstacking would help fix this problem with a reasonable trade-off. For March, turning unstacking on resulted in the bottom 1/3 of the base having their entire schedule awarded via unstacking and a huge increase in SLG affected pilots.
...
With the help of the MEC Officers and the Senior Director of Planning and Manpower we came to an agreement to produce runs based off a 73-hour minimum window. This allowed DFW to award out properly instead of unstacking a large portion of the pilots in base and leaving a huge amount of flying uncovered. Our agreement also covered that any pilot receiving a line less than 75.83 hours would be paid for 75.83 hours.
02-22-2016 | 03:41 PM
#4712
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Cheese curds, get your stereotypes right. And to Judge, ORD is another nearby option. For what it's worth.
Our classes weren't getting filled recently, and then all of the sudden, they are. If any new guys want share why you're coming now, I think a lot of us would be curious. It's an inexplicable surge in recruiting, and for a long time new hires seemed to be dwindling. Is it the referral bonus? Is the person referring you splitting it with you? No judgment, just trying to understand.
For a little context, Mesa management seems unwilling to negotiate for a new and better contract until we can't find people to hire. The theory is: once people stop applying, management will be forced to improve the contract and pay rates until people do start coming again. That's why so many guys here want to understand what's drawing people back to Mesa right now, all of the sudden.
Whatmeworry, WisJudge, fire2flyer, et al, many of us would be genuinely curious if you'd care to share why Mesa and why now.
This comment is in reference to the "free" iPads Mesa has apparently been giving to new hires, in addition to some walking-around-money bonuses. Our pilot union is in contention with the company over giving these things out to attract new pilots since the contract doesn't permit the company to do so. Again, the theory is we want the company to improve the contract for everyone to attract more pilots, not just improve things for new hires.
Our classes weren't getting filled recently, and then all of the sudden, they are. If any new guys want share why you're coming now, I think a lot of us would be curious. It's an inexplicable surge in recruiting, and for a long time new hires seemed to be dwindling. Is it the referral bonus? Is the person referring you splitting it with you? No judgment, just trying to understand.
For a little context, Mesa management seems unwilling to negotiate for a new and better contract until we can't find people to hire. The theory is: once people stop applying, management will be forced to improve the contract and pay rates until people do start coming again. That's why so many guys here want to understand what's drawing people back to Mesa right now, all of the sudden.
Whatmeworry, WisJudge, fire2flyer, et al, many of us would be genuinely curious if you'd care to share why Mesa and why now.
This comment is in reference to the "free" iPads Mesa has apparently been giving to new hires, in addition to some walking-around-money bonuses. Our pilot union is in contention with the company over giving these things out to attract new pilots since the contract doesn't permit the company to do so. Again, the theory is we want the company to improve the contract for everyone to attract more pilots, not just improve things for new hires.
I understand the concept that if they don't have anyone applying, their hand will be forced to provide a better contract. The question is, how is that working out? I have read posts from years and years ago where the same thing was being preached. I see nothing has changed. That route doesn't seem to be working. Many of those who are asking this of others are relatively new themselves. Why didn't they follow this strategy? Why aren't ALL the other pilots taking a stand instead of asking those who might want a job to fall on the sword? Strength in numbers instead of possible future new hires. I'm not trying to offend. This is just a guy on the outside looking in.... doing some homework.... trying to make informed decisions.
To answer the question as to why would I consider Mesa.... for me it is about where I would be based and a quicker possible upgrade, not saying a "quick" upgrade. I have also heard great things about the training department. Pay the first few years is not a priority for me personally. Although I would be considerate of the needs of others and vote accordingly, it is not as big of a deal to me as living in base. Mesa has two bases close.... DFW and IAH.
02-22-2016 | 03:49 PM
#4713
Living the Dream
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,795
Likes: 0
Sure, thanks for the explanation. Living near base is huge and trumps almost everything. Not asking anyone to fall on the sword or even to not come here; as you said, many of us did the same thing over the last few years. I was just genuinely curious as to why. And welcome, by the way.
02-22-2016 | 03:55 PM
#4714
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Sure, thanks for the explanation. Living near base is huge and trumps almost everything. Not asking anyone to fall on the sword or even to not come here; as you said, many of us did the same thing over the last few years. I was just genuinely curious as to why. And welcome, by the way.
02-22-2016 | 05:16 PM
#4716
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
New guys are REQUIRED to have this iPad mount.
http://www.amazon.com/Delkin-DDMNT-T...eywords=Delkin
http://www.amazon.com/Delkin-DDMNT-T...eywords=Delkin
02-22-2016 | 05:22 PM
#4717
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
No--I really actually need to know why he's coming here. It's like when you dump the girl you're dating and she's all confused blowing up your phone wanting/needing to know why.
"It's not you--it's me--I work for Mesa and commute to IAH" --half of my friends on the EJet at Mesa
"It's not you--it's me--I work for Mesa and commute to IAH" --half of my friends on the EJet at Mesa
02-22-2016 | 05:37 PM
#4718
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
My curiousity has zero to do with contract negotiations--it has to do with basic microeconomics.
Someone who lives in Wisconsin would have an insanely better QOL commuting 1-leg or a short drive to ORD for Skywest, or 1-leg/a short drive to DTW/MSP for Endeavor, while making insanely more money over the three year period you'll be waiting to upgrade--anywhere. Better work rules, time off, QOL, and 2-3x less time spent battling for jumpseats/being stuck in Houston in monsoon season.
Oh and at Skywest/Envoy/Endeavor, there isn't the potential of a lawsuit (union vs. company) hanging over your head about the money you're taking in as a new hire outside of the contract--that is an option on the table for our MEC and it's still uncertain how that's going to play out in the next several weeks with MEC elections coming up. I'm not going to say anything else about the new hire payments b/c my views are known to this thread, but I have spoken to several people in the union about it, and that IS an option being discussed.
Just things to ponder. Even for an "old guy" who has all the money they need and just wants to fly a 175 for a bit.
Someone who lives in Wisconsin would have an insanely better QOL commuting 1-leg or a short drive to ORD for Skywest, or 1-leg/a short drive to DTW/MSP for Endeavor, while making insanely more money over the three year period you'll be waiting to upgrade--anywhere. Better work rules, time off, QOL, and 2-3x less time spent battling for jumpseats/being stuck in Houston in monsoon season.
Oh and at Skywest/Envoy/Endeavor, there isn't the potential of a lawsuit (union vs. company) hanging over your head about the money you're taking in as a new hire outside of the contract--that is an option on the table for our MEC and it's still uncertain how that's going to play out in the next several weeks with MEC elections coming up. I'm not going to say anything else about the new hire payments b/c my views are known to this thread, but I have spoken to several people in the union about it, and that IS an option being discussed.
Just things to ponder. Even for an "old guy" who has all the money they need and just wants to fly a 175 for a bit.
I think I am probably an atypical hire. My wife and I want to college in TX and the winters are getting long in WI. Kids are about gone and one can only eat so much cheese and drink so much beer in bed...maybe that's why we have 5 kids.
I did simply want to fly the 175, and I wanted an opportunity for a reasonably quick upgrade. We have clients in Houston and a number of close friends there as well. No, I did not contact Endeavor or Skywest. As much as I have loved Wisconsin, and it has been a great place to raise a family, I am seriously tired of the winters here. I spent 5 years in Longview, TX so we are familiar with the climate. I prefer winters in Texas and summers in WI.
The process with Mesa was simple. I called Mesa the middle of last week and asked for the 175 and an early class date. They called back the next morning with a yes for the 175 and a March 3 class date. Really not any more complicated than that. I was not promised any signing spiffs, free iPads, bonuses, etc.
Cheers, Judge
02-22-2016 | 05:53 PM
#4719
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
I did simply want to fly the 175, and I wanted an opportunity for a reasonably quick upgrade. We have clients in Houston and a number of close friends there as well. No, I did not contact Endeavor or Skywest. As much as I have loved Wisconsin, and it has been a great place to raise a family, I am seriously tired of the winters here. I spent 5 years in Longview, TX so we are familiar with the climate. I prefer winters in Texas and summers in WI.
The process with Mesa was simple. I called Mesa the middle of last week and asked for the 175 and an early class date. They called back the next morning with a yes for the 175 and a March 3 class date. Really not any more complicated than that. I was not promised any signing spiffs, free iPads, bonuses, etc.
Cheers, Judge
02-22-2016 | 05:57 PM
#4720
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
If it's IAH you want, and especially in the 175, then I think you made the right choice. All of SkyWest's flying out of IAH is in the 700 and United has shifted the IAH/Mexico routes from the CRJ to the 175 ... about 60 - 65% of SkyWest's flying out of IAH. The rumor at OO, and I do believe it's a very strong likelihood, is that SkyWest will be pulling out of IAH. That came directly from some of their senior captains based there. No matter what, if you plan to play the snowbird, commuting between Houston and Minnesota 6 months out of the year will be a royal PITA that seems to be exactly what you'll want to avoid at this stage in your life. This I know because I'm in basically the same place. Cheers.
Judge
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