ScottyDo

Yes, and because they think the fast upgrade carrot still exists. As well as the retired type wanting to fly for a hobby just has to pick up the phone and bam.

Out Of Trim

Let me see if I understand this ...
You and Navmode and ScottyDooDoo have been at this for a whopping 3 or 4 years but you expect the rest of us to consider you experts in all things pt121, including collective bargaining?

And, you watched conditions worsen over that 3 or 4 year period, did nothing, watched ALPA do nothing, and choose to blame people who weren't even around instead?

Let's do some research. Find one example where, within the last 80 years, the Railroad Act (RRA) was enforced AGAINST organized labor. Now find one example where civilian employees of a privately owned business or even a publicly owned corporation were punished under that act either civilly or criminally by a court for work cessation. Remember, unprotected Government employees terminated by the gov don't count.

While you're at it, explain how the AA pilots and others have successfully avoided the RRA. There is nothing in the 17 sections of the 1862 act nor the subsequent statutes enacted through 1874 that pertains to airlines. Specific language pertains to the movement of troops, equipment, mail, and the continued provision of other services essential to the security and economic welfare of the USA. Airlines aren't mentioned once, big surprise since they didn't exist yet. For ANY current company, let alone a regional airline to attempt to expect remedy from the Federal government under the antiquated law is laughable. And, so is any expectation that the gov would attempt to apply it to any company other than a railroad or a telecommunications company that utilizes a railroad right-of-way. The language is very specific. Far too specific for the gov to use it to protect a regional airline, particularly one that they, otherwise, care nothing about.

That is why other pilot unions have successfully threatened a/o engaged in work stoppages without reprisal. ALPA is hiding behind this lame excuse while doing very little on behalf of most regional airlines ... especially Mesa. Yes, we do get our money's worth when personal protection is sought from them but, collective protection? That's another story altogether. My suspicion is that JO laughs them out of his office because he knows they're a joke.

So, to those who need to hear it yet again ... focus your frustrations and efforts in the proper direction.

Out Of Trim

First of all. You know nothing about me. Where I've been, what I've done, what I know or don't, how long I've been at Mesa, how long I'll stay ... nothing. You assume I'm after a quick upgrade. Maybe, maybe not, maybe I don't even need one ... again nothing. As for my attitude and your statement of blind ignorance I can only say that, based on what I've heard you say on here, you sound pretty young and childish ... to the point where it seems likely that I leave more wisdom in one of my dumps than you have in your whole body. I'm not going to waste time sparring with you, just quit with the little schoolgirl whining whenever somebody new takes a job here. Just because their reasons don't fit your own views or agendas doesn't mean the rest of us need to hear the complaining from the same usual 4 or 5 people. You have it no worse than the rest of us. If you want to complain then at least do something about it ... tell ALPA they're FOS and join those of us that will be demanding ALPA to finally try to do something about this instead of just finding excuses.

deltajuliet

I'm not arguing one way or another about new hires, but I think your Railroad Labor Act information is erroneous.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_Labor_Act
It was enacted in 1926 and adjusted in the 30's. Airline employees are almost always denied the right to strike, even after the conditions of the Railway Labor Act have been satisfied to do so. Illegal job actions have also cost unions money in the past, including one at American where it was discovered there had been an organized sick out. The union was fined tens of million (http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/cwc/prof...ot-sickout.pdf). Pilots knowledgable about the RLA absolutely hate it because it's an archaic POS piece of legislation that doesn't have any place in the 2016 airline industry, and yet it still neuters our unions and stops us from getting anything done.

Allegiant tried to strike just last year. Told they couldn't: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/03...on-strike.html

Out Of Trim

^^^^ ^^^ this !!! Words from yet one more who sees the big pic and understands it

Out Of Trim

Thanks Delta. In the 1860s, the Railroad Act was enacted with one of its foremost intentions to circumvent railroads from cessation of certain operations which were key to the government and country as a whole. The act was only formulated with the actions of the companies in mind since, in those days, strikes were basically unheard of. People were so happy to just have a job that supplied a meal a day and a roof over their head that they would never think of striking because the alternative meant living on the street. So, during a limited number of circumstances that the act was enforced, it was only with respect to forcing continued operations by the railroad and, the gov could force even unprofitable operations to be sustained even if it meant bankrupting the railroad in the process. In that regard, it was a very powerful piece of legislation.

A perceived shortcoming of that act became apparent in the early part of the next century when labor began to organize in several large industries. The gov acted preemptively when it saw that, while it could prevent the management of a company from ceasing critical operations, it could do nothing to inhibit its employees from doing the same. Therefore, the Railroad Labor Act was passed in the 1920s as, essentially, an enjoinder to the Railroad Act. Now all bases were covered in that the gov could prohibit both management AND employees from ceasing critical operations.

This is why I asked whoever it was in here to show me one example in the last 80 years. While there are examples of the companies themselves being hammered, there are none that I'm aware of where a single employee was forced to make one penny of restitution either to the company or the gov nor serve one day in jail ... even AFTER the passage of the RLA. While the RLA definitely has some really big teeth, to date, nobody that I can find has been bitten and the reason is this (copied, in fact, directly from the link you provided)---

"The RLA specifies both (1) the negotiation and mediation procedures that unions and employers must exhaust before they may change the status quo, and (2) the methods for resolving "minor" disputes over the interpretation or application of collective bargaining agreements. The RLA permits strikes over major disputes only after the union has exhausted the RLA's negotiation and mediation procedures, while barring almost all strikes over minor disputes. The RLA also authorizes the courts to enjoin strikes if the union has not exhausted those procedures.
On the other hand, the RLA imposes fewer restrictions on the tactics that unions may use when they do have the right to strike."

In short, what this means is that, even in situations where transportation critical operations fall within the act, there ARE conditions under which employees can strike. Those conditions can be met if its demonstrated that they are severe enough and that all other attempts to resolve things have been tried by the union and have failed.

At $22/hr we're being paid at a poverty level which is one half of what the rest of the industry makes. I would say that a pretty good argument exists for satisfying that first condition. However, the second condition ...? Ah, that's another story. Has ALPA exhausted all other avenues of mediation? OK, have they tried at least one? Have they done ANYTHING at all?

I don't consider telling us there's nothing they can do as having done something. And, this is the point that I and others have been trying to make to those in this forum who are at least smart enough to listen.

Out Of Trim

BTW, I haven't looked thoroughly into that Allegiant thing yet. But I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't because the judge simply found that one of those two conditions detailed above wasn't met. This was off your link though --

"A federal judge in Las Vegas has issued an order barring Allegiant Air pilots from going on strike while mediation is under way in their labor dispute.

Judge Andrew Gordon ruled Friday that International Brotherhood of Teamsters Local 1224 can't strike in order to gain leverage over the airline while both sides are in mediation under federal law."

From this, I'd say that, as per my hunch, the Judge ruled the strike illegal on the basis of condition 2 not being met in that the union had not completed a/o attempted all manners of resolution yet since mediation was still underway. If the teamsters called for a strike prior to going all the way through the process then they must have some pretty shoddy lawyers.

HardLemonade

I made the biggest mistake of my career by going to Mesa. I'll be the first to raise my hand and admit I was just another idiot who fell for the hype. People, there are no fast tracks to the majors! NONE! The upgrade train has stopped at Mesa, but even if you upgraded quickly the majors still won't touch you with a 20ft pole. It takes a lot more than 1000 hours PIC in an Rjet to be competitive for Delta, United, AA, or even an LCC for that matter.

I'm at a new Regional now and it is day and night when compared to Mesa. I knew how bad Mesa was when I worked there...but I had no idea just how bad it was until now that I can make a comparison. JO can go screw himself. It should be illegal to run an airline the way he runs Mesa.

As others have said....there is NO EXCUSE to go to Mesa these days. NONE!

deltajuliet

I'm in total agreement that we should've been checking off the required boxes to have the ability to strike years ago. And no, sadly, MAG ALPA hasn't done much of anything in that regard.

In regards to Allegiant, I believe they were in Section 6 and the company changed the status quo, even after a court order demanded them to revert back to it.

Something about it a month or two back: http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...ml#post2064749

iFlyRC

Hmm, tell that to the 5 CA's and 5 FO's who got on with LCC's and majors this month