so you want to be a military pilot?
03-11-2010, 06:11 AM
#21
Get's Every Day Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 1,858
Troll
Originally Posted by CaptFuzz
My advice, from my own personal experience, would be to be cautious about joining the military.
Killing people for a living should be something that disturbs you. There's a lot of cliches repeated often by many with a wide variety of motivations that serve to distance all of us, military and civilian, from the full effect of the use of military violence. There's all sorts of things about "heroes" "freedom" and "something bigger than you" that are repeated so often that they are simply assumed to be true, and people who challenge them are quickly vilified, so we don't question them.
My advice to someone considering joining the military for any reason, to include furthering a career as a pilot, is to not sacrifice your humanity for anything, to include "patriotism, "service," and "your country" as much as personal goals.
If the thought of killing people disturbs someone, but they have taken time to think about this and feel that despite this it is still justifiable and necessary, I disagree with them on some things but I can still respect that. The people who join the military and relish the chance to "kill bad guys" are more a danger to free society than they are defenders of freedom.
Killing people for a living should be something that disturbs you. There's a lot of cliches repeated often by many with a wide variety of motivations that serve to distance all of us, military and civilian, from the full effect of the use of military violence. There's all sorts of things about "heroes" "freedom" and "something bigger than you" that are repeated so often that they are simply assumed to be true, and people who challenge them are quickly vilified, so we don't question them.
My advice to someone considering joining the military for any reason, to include furthering a career as a pilot, is to not sacrifice your humanity for anything, to include "patriotism, "service," and "your country" as much as personal goals.
If the thought of killing people disturbs someone, but they have taken time to think about this and feel that despite this it is still justifiable and necessary, I disagree with them on some things but I can still respect that. The people who join the military and relish the chance to "kill bad guys" are more a danger to free society than they are defenders of freedom.
03-11-2010, 08:11 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by bunk22
Well, strike/figher guy versus prop guy. My best month was during OEF, November 2001 I logged 121 hours in that month. Best FRS month was 70 hours during FCLP/CQ.
At the end of my first sea tour, I just broke 1300 hours total. I logged around 275 hours my first deployment and around 400 on my second. I had about 200 out of flight school. I spent 12 months on two deployments and 3.5 years with VRC-30. So in 2.5 years of non deployment, I logged around 425 hours, about 170 hours a year.
I know while I was at VRC-30 as a DH, we had a few JO's finish their 3 year tour with under 1000 hours total. Just one or two, most had between 1000-1300 hours total. I think part of the reason I had what I had was for my first two years, we flew nights at the boat and thus flew many an hour in the night FCLP pattern. Once we went day only, the FCLP time was cut by at least 3/4.
At the end of my first sea tour, I just broke 1300 hours total. I logged around 275 hours my first deployment and around 400 on my second. I had about 200 out of flight school. I spent 12 months on two deployments and 3.5 years with VRC-30. So in 2.5 years of non deployment, I logged around 425 hours, about 170 hours a year.
I know while I was at VRC-30 as a DH, we had a few JO's finish their 3 year tour with under 1000 hours total. Just one or two, most had between 1000-1300 hours total. I think part of the reason I had what I had was for my first two years, we flew nights at the boat and thus flew many an hour in the night FCLP pattern. Once we went day only, the FCLP time was cut by at least 3/4.
I finished my first 3.5 fleet tour (including two WestPac deployments) with 900 hrs in type and that is including RAG hrs. My first deployment I got 150 hrs and my second 120 hrs. I was a land based 'A' guy though and I know that the 'C' model boat guys and the Aviano based 'D' guys got less sorties usually, but many more hours. The 'Ds' in Aviano flew more on one mission than I might in a week!
FlyBoyd - thanks for the update. I certainly didn't know that the services were different either. It is a leap of faith to give up such a chuck of time without knowing what awaits. Again - thanks to you that chose that path.
ExAF - I saw some in other threads that the one poster in question seems to already be a member of the Armed Forces. If those feelings are his/her true feelings then I would consider that person to be a stain to his/her service and fellow Airmen, and if not an imposter.
USMCFLYR
03-11-2010, 08:16 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
Couple of thoughts...
First, sorry to feed the troll, but I did relish the killing. I am Christian, a father, and can actually tear up at a real country song...especially those about lovin' your kids and family. I am in ways a great big p*ssy. But...I did like the killing, because the primal part of your pysche is allowed to run closer to the surface in the military than other places. In fact, I resented those who tried to overly sanitize or soften our warrior culture...one of the reasons I always respect the Marines. They never forgot that "every Marine is a rifleman..."
The joy or appreciation of killing came from being jammed into a M113 during Desert Storm, despite those fairly new shiny wings on my chest. I was a battallion ALO, and despite our best efforts at lip service to the Army I never thought we were really all that well trained to go to war on the ground as FACs. We had the basics...but geez...in land combat there are so many nasty ways to die, and you don't have an ejection seat.
So...married barely a year...off into battle I went. There were literally divisions of Iraqi armor between us and our objectives. We had been bombared with messages from the press about ...the bloody ground war..." Even some of our own Army guys had a macbre spirit. One Commander of a tank battalion near us that was to do breaching operations said at a meeting in a blustery voice..."..Padre...you are gonna be doin' last rites on soliders that have been dead for two *&^* days...." What he meant was there would be so many casualties he wouldn't have time to care for all the dead.
But a funny thing happened on the way to obvilion. The guys flying those fighters, bombers, and attack jets continually attacked enemy armor and (most important for me personally) artillery sites. Marines skirmished with artillery at the borders and the Big Red One did some breaching operations. When we finally did roll north, our own tankers (that's M-1s, not KC-135s) did their gunnery practice proud and shot the pi$$ out of any T-72s we found. One rainy night on the move I saw a column of Iraqi dismouts get taken out by coax machine gun fire and another group blown to bits by bradely chain guns. And...this sentimental, compassionate, nurtured only child loved early single minute of it. Every dead body we rolled over was one less RPG totin' dismout waiting to kill me. Every burned out corpse in a T-72 or Chinese made APC was one less trigger finger on a Sagger missle or russian made smooth bore ready to prevent me from getting home. I never held the trigger during that war...I held a mike...but I saw a lot of death coming down. It was glorious, and I liked it.
So yeah...I liked the killing. In my mind at the time, its what it took to get me home.
Now...roll the tape a few years forward, and I'm finally back where I belong...a nice, climate controlled cockpit racing along at nearly supersonic speeds over the same desert. Funny thing is, EVERYONE is worried about my pink a$$ now...I've got AWACS and GCI watching over us, F-16s ready to pop up any SAMS that try to engage us, and if it all goes bad I got a great ejection seat, world class survival training, and a host of A-10s and MH-53s ready to blast out to rescue me. See...I was just a disposable grunt in the Gulf War, and nobody really cared (besides my own battallion and family at home) what happened to me on the battlefield. Folks were EXPECTED to die there. As a fighter pilot...I was an asset that needed to be protected. However, I NEVER forgot during my career what it felt like to be in harms way needing help from others to stay alive. And that meant I needed to be ready to kill to bring our guys home. The irony was that I always wanted to be an aerial knight, and good at one job...so I chose the F15C as the epitiome of being a fighter pilot. However, there were a lot of times it would have been satisfying to have had the ground attack mission to support the guys on the ground. You can trust, however, that had any flogger, hind, or other ground attack platform dared launch to attack our guys...or if a Foxbat has launched to attack one of our unarmed U-2s, I would have not only relished shooting down the plane, but also would have strived to kill the pilot flying the same instrument. A dead pilot means not only the loss of an asset that took years to create, it also creates fear, hesitation, and a reluctance to engage the enemy in the future. For the 15 years I flew the Eagle, I trained to do that kind of killing, and would have enjoyed the opportunity had it presented itself. Maybe it was getting shot at in my early 20s, but I never harboured any illusions about what combat meant...air to air or otherwise...after my first tour. I don't remember thinking I would enjoy killing when I joined AFROTC and thought of doing 7 years then going to Delta Airlines. But I damn sure developed a taste for it when I understood that is what it took to get me home.
First, sorry to feed the troll, but I did relish the killing. I am Christian, a father, and can actually tear up at a real country song...especially those about lovin' your kids and family. I am in ways a great big p*ssy. But...I did like the killing, because the primal part of your pysche is allowed to run closer to the surface in the military than other places. In fact, I resented those who tried to overly sanitize or soften our warrior culture...one of the reasons I always respect the Marines. They never forgot that "every Marine is a rifleman..."
The joy or appreciation of killing came from being jammed into a M113 during Desert Storm, despite those fairly new shiny wings on my chest. I was a battallion ALO, and despite our best efforts at lip service to the Army I never thought we were really all that well trained to go to war on the ground as FACs. We had the basics...but geez...in land combat there are so many nasty ways to die, and you don't have an ejection seat.
So...married barely a year...off into battle I went. There were literally divisions of Iraqi armor between us and our objectives. We had been bombared with messages from the press about ...the bloody ground war..." Even some of our own Army guys had a macbre spirit. One Commander of a tank battalion near us that was to do breaching operations said at a meeting in a blustery voice..."..Padre...you are gonna be doin' last rites on soliders that have been dead for two *&^* days...." What he meant was there would be so many casualties he wouldn't have time to care for all the dead.
But a funny thing happened on the way to obvilion. The guys flying those fighters, bombers, and attack jets continually attacked enemy armor and (most important for me personally) artillery sites. Marines skirmished with artillery at the borders and the Big Red One did some breaching operations. When we finally did roll north, our own tankers (that's M-1s, not KC-135s) did their gunnery practice proud and shot the pi$$ out of any T-72s we found. One rainy night on the move I saw a column of Iraqi dismouts get taken out by coax machine gun fire and another group blown to bits by bradely chain guns. And...this sentimental, compassionate, nurtured only child loved early single minute of it. Every dead body we rolled over was one less RPG totin' dismout waiting to kill me. Every burned out corpse in a T-72 or Chinese made APC was one less trigger finger on a Sagger missle or russian made smooth bore ready to prevent me from getting home. I never held the trigger during that war...I held a mike...but I saw a lot of death coming down. It was glorious, and I liked it.
So yeah...I liked the killing. In my mind at the time, its what it took to get me home.
Now...roll the tape a few years forward, and I'm finally back where I belong...a nice, climate controlled cockpit racing along at nearly supersonic speeds over the same desert. Funny thing is, EVERYONE is worried about my pink a$$ now...I've got AWACS and GCI watching over us, F-16s ready to pop up any SAMS that try to engage us, and if it all goes bad I got a great ejection seat, world class survival training, and a host of A-10s and MH-53s ready to blast out to rescue me. See...I was just a disposable grunt in the Gulf War, and nobody really cared (besides my own battallion and family at home) what happened to me on the battlefield. Folks were EXPECTED to die there. As a fighter pilot...I was an asset that needed to be protected. However, I NEVER forgot during my career what it felt like to be in harms way needing help from others to stay alive. And that meant I needed to be ready to kill to bring our guys home. The irony was that I always wanted to be an aerial knight, and good at one job...so I chose the F15C as the epitiome of being a fighter pilot. However, there were a lot of times it would have been satisfying to have had the ground attack mission to support the guys on the ground. You can trust, however, that had any flogger, hind, or other ground attack platform dared launch to attack our guys...or if a Foxbat has launched to attack one of our unarmed U-2s, I would have not only relished shooting down the plane, but also would have strived to kill the pilot flying the same instrument. A dead pilot means not only the loss of an asset that took years to create, it also creates fear, hesitation, and a reluctance to engage the enemy in the future. For the 15 years I flew the Eagle, I trained to do that kind of killing, and would have enjoyed the opportunity had it presented itself. Maybe it was getting shot at in my early 20s, but I never harboured any illusions about what combat meant...air to air or otherwise...after my first tour. I don't remember thinking I would enjoy killing when I joined AFROTC and thought of doing 7 years then going to Delta Airlines. But I damn sure developed a taste for it when I understood that is what it took to get me home.
03-11-2010, 08:18 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 767A (Ret)
Posts: 6,248
Troll food
Originally Posted by ExAF
Don't Feed the Trolls please.
I think that posts like the one you referenced may actually do the military a favor. The last thing they need is an applicant who doesn't understand the mission or is unmotivated to perform it. Just takes a slot away from someone who would do a better job. Qualms and doubts, however baseless, should be resolved before applying.
03-11-2010, 08:27 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
Next thought:
You need 1500 PIC turbine to be competitive in the airline market if you are military. For airline wannabes, the quickest/best way to do that is with an ANG/Reserve Heavy job. You get to pick the airframe, the place you live, and all you are waiting on is the pace of the upgrade...which is sometimes slower in the ANG due to the wealth of experience...you aren't needed as an AC or IP like they sometimes are in the active units.
On the other hand, even a guy who gets into a fighter unit--active or guard-- can probably plan on a 450-600 hours in a 3 year tour. If he gets a follow on the training unit (UPT) or an ops unit he will likley have 1000-1200 hours. Add a conversion factor and he/she is probably in the zone. 10 years active means getting hired at 29-32 at an airline, and sticking in the ANG for 10 more insures a retirement at 60, furlough insurance, and the (absolutely glorious) opportunity to enjoy the perks of being a fighter pilot (or any military aviator) while also being an airline pilot. I had weeks where I got to fly my Navion, an F-15, and a 727 the same week (never did swing 3/3 but did 2/3 in one day), and it was a blast. It was busy and challenging but a lot of fun too.
Key to success is play the game to win. Go into the military like you want to go to Weapons School, be a squadron commander, and then be chief of staff. That way, if you find out you can't get out, or if it turns out you relish the military, you won't go wrong. On the other hand, if you sandbag for your career you may find no reserve unit will want you and the airlines shun you too. The simple question they would ask is "you never worked hard for them, why should we think you would work hard for us?..." As long as you work in such a way they can never ask that question, you'll do fine whatever route you ultimately choose...
You need 1500 PIC turbine to be competitive in the airline market if you are military. For airline wannabes, the quickest/best way to do that is with an ANG/Reserve Heavy job. You get to pick the airframe, the place you live, and all you are waiting on is the pace of the upgrade...which is sometimes slower in the ANG due to the wealth of experience...you aren't needed as an AC or IP like they sometimes are in the active units.
On the other hand, even a guy who gets into a fighter unit--active or guard-- can probably plan on a 450-600 hours in a 3 year tour. If he gets a follow on the training unit (UPT) or an ops unit he will likley have 1000-1200 hours. Add a conversion factor and he/she is probably in the zone. 10 years active means getting hired at 29-32 at an airline, and sticking in the ANG for 10 more insures a retirement at 60, furlough insurance, and the (absolutely glorious) opportunity to enjoy the perks of being a fighter pilot (or any military aviator) while also being an airline pilot. I had weeks where I got to fly my Navion, an F-15, and a 727 the same week (never did swing 3/3 but did 2/3 in one day), and it was a blast. It was busy and challenging but a lot of fun too.
Key to success is play the game to win. Go into the military like you want to go to Weapons School, be a squadron commander, and then be chief of staff. That way, if you find out you can't get out, or if it turns out you relish the military, you won't go wrong. On the other hand, if you sandbag for your career you may find no reserve unit will want you and the airlines shun you too. The simple question they would ask is "you never worked hard for them, why should we think you would work hard for us?..." As long as you work in such a way they can never ask that question, you'll do fine whatever route you ultimately choose...
03-11-2010, 08:34 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by Albief15
Couple of thoughts...
First, sorry to feed the troll, but I did relish the killing. I am Christian, a father, and can actually tear up at a real country song...especially those about lovin' your kids and family. I am in ways a great big p*ssy. But...I did like the killing, because the primal part of your pysche is allowed to run closer to the surface in the military than other places. In fact, I resented those who tried to overly sanitize or soften our warrior culture...one of the reasons I always respect the Marines. They never forgot that "every Marine is a rifleman..."
The joy or appreciation of killing came from being jammed into a M113 during Desert Storm, despite those fairly new shiny wings on my chest. I was a battallion ALO, and despite our best efforts at lip service to the Army I never thought we were really all that well trained to go to war on the ground as FACs. We had the basics...but geez...in land combat there are so many nasty ways to die, and you don't have an ejection seat.
So...married barely a year...off into battle I went. There were literally divisions of Iraqi armor between us and our objectives. We had been bombared with messages from the press about ...the bloody ground war..." Even some of our own Army guys had a macbre spirit. One Commander of a tank battalion near us that was to do breaching operations said at a meeting in a blustery voice..."..Padre...you are gonna be doin' last rites on soliders that have been dead for two *&^* days...." What he meant was there would be so many casualties he wouldn't have time to care for all the dead.
But a funny thing happened on the way to obvilion. The guys flying those fighters, bombers, and attack jets continually attacked enemy armor and (most important for me personally) artillery sites. Marines skirmished with artillery at the borders and the Big Red One did some breaching operations. When we finally did roll north, our own tankers (that's M-1s, not KC-135s) did their gunnery practice proud and shot the pi$$ out of any T-72s we found. One rainy night on the move I saw a column of Iraqi dismouts get taken out by coax machine gun fire and another group blown to bits by bradely chain guns. And...this sentimental, compassionate, nurtured only child loved early single minute of it. Every dead body we rolled over was one less RPG totin' dismout waiting to kill me. Every burned out corpse in a T-72 or Chinese made APC was one less trigger finger on a Sagger missle or russian made smooth bore ready to prevent me from getting home. I never held the trigger during that war...I held a mike...but I saw a lot of death coming down. It was glorious, and I liked it.
So yeah...I liked the killing. In my mind at the time, its what it took to get me home.
Now...roll the tape a few years forward, and I'm finally back where I belong...a nice, climate controlled cockpit racing along at nearly supersonic speeds over the same desert. Funny thing is, EVERYONE is worried about my pink a$$ now...I've got AWACS and GCI watching over us, F-16s ready to pop up any SAMS that try to engage us, and if it all goes bad I got a great ejection seat, world class survival training, and a host of A-10s and MH-53s ready to blast out to rescue me. See...I was just a disposable grunt in the Gulf War, and nobody really cared (besides my own battallion and family at home) what happened to me on the battlefield. Folks were EXPECTED to die there. As a fighter pilot...I was an asset that needed to be protected. However, I NEVER forgot during my career what it felt like to be in harms way needing help from others to stay alive. And that meant I needed to be ready to kill to bring our guys home. The irony was that I always wanted to be an aerial knight, and good at one job...so I chose the F15C as the epitiome of being a fighter pilot. However, there were a lot of times it would have been satisfying to have had the ground attack mission to support the guys on the ground. You can trust, however, that had any flogger, hind, or other ground attack platform dared launch to attack our guys...or if a Foxbat has launched to attack one of our unarmed U-2s, I would have not only relished shooting down the plane, but also would have strived to kill the pilot flying the same instrument. A dead pilot means not only the loss of an asset that took years to create, it also creates fear, hesitation, and a reluctance to engage the enemy in the future. For the 15 years I flew the Eagle, I trained to do that kind of killing, and would have enjoyed the opportunity had it presented itself. Maybe it was getting shot at in my early 20s, but I never harboured any illusions about what combat meant...air to air or otherwise...after my first tour. I don't remember thinking I would enjoy killing when I joined AFROTC and thought of doing 7 years then going to Delta Airlines. But I damn sure developed a taste for it when I understood that is what it took to get me home.
First, sorry to feed the troll, but I did relish the killing. I am Christian, a father, and can actually tear up at a real country song...especially those about lovin' your kids and family. I am in ways a great big p*ssy. But...I did like the killing, because the primal part of your pysche is allowed to run closer to the surface in the military than other places. In fact, I resented those who tried to overly sanitize or soften our warrior culture...one of the reasons I always respect the Marines. They never forgot that "every Marine is a rifleman..."
The joy or appreciation of killing came from being jammed into a M113 during Desert Storm, despite those fairly new shiny wings on my chest. I was a battallion ALO, and despite our best efforts at lip service to the Army I never thought we were really all that well trained to go to war on the ground as FACs. We had the basics...but geez...in land combat there are so many nasty ways to die, and you don't have an ejection seat.
So...married barely a year...off into battle I went. There were literally divisions of Iraqi armor between us and our objectives. We had been bombared with messages from the press about ...the bloody ground war..." Even some of our own Army guys had a macbre spirit. One Commander of a tank battalion near us that was to do breaching operations said at a meeting in a blustery voice..."..Padre...you are gonna be doin' last rites on soliders that have been dead for two *&^* days...." What he meant was there would be so many casualties he wouldn't have time to care for all the dead.
But a funny thing happened on the way to obvilion. The guys flying those fighters, bombers, and attack jets continually attacked enemy armor and (most important for me personally) artillery sites. Marines skirmished with artillery at the borders and the Big Red One did some breaching operations. When we finally did roll north, our own tankers (that's M-1s, not KC-135s) did their gunnery practice proud and shot the pi$$ out of any T-72s we found. One rainy night on the move I saw a column of Iraqi dismouts get taken out by coax machine gun fire and another group blown to bits by bradely chain guns. And...this sentimental, compassionate, nurtured only child loved early single minute of it. Every dead body we rolled over was one less RPG totin' dismout waiting to kill me. Every burned out corpse in a T-72 or Chinese made APC was one less trigger finger on a Sagger missle or russian made smooth bore ready to prevent me from getting home. I never held the trigger during that war...I held a mike...but I saw a lot of death coming down. It was glorious, and I liked it.
So yeah...I liked the killing. In my mind at the time, its what it took to get me home.
Now...roll the tape a few years forward, and I'm finally back where I belong...a nice, climate controlled cockpit racing along at nearly supersonic speeds over the same desert. Funny thing is, EVERYONE is worried about my pink a$$ now...I've got AWACS and GCI watching over us, F-16s ready to pop up any SAMS that try to engage us, and if it all goes bad I got a great ejection seat, world class survival training, and a host of A-10s and MH-53s ready to blast out to rescue me. See...I was just a disposable grunt in the Gulf War, and nobody really cared (besides my own battallion and family at home) what happened to me on the battlefield. Folks were EXPECTED to die there. As a fighter pilot...I was an asset that needed to be protected. However, I NEVER forgot during my career what it felt like to be in harms way needing help from others to stay alive. And that meant I needed to be ready to kill to bring our guys home. The irony was that I always wanted to be an aerial knight, and good at one job...so I chose the F15C as the epitiome of being a fighter pilot. However, there were a lot of times it would have been satisfying to have had the ground attack mission to support the guys on the ground. You can trust, however, that had any flogger, hind, or other ground attack platform dared launch to attack our guys...or if a Foxbat has launched to attack one of our unarmed U-2s, I would have not only relished shooting down the plane, but also would have strived to kill the pilot flying the same instrument. A dead pilot means not only the loss of an asset that took years to create, it also creates fear, hesitation, and a reluctance to engage the enemy in the future. For the 15 years I flew the Eagle, I trained to do that kind of killing, and would have enjoyed the opportunity had it presented itself. Maybe it was getting shot at in my early 20s, but I never harboured any illusions about what combat meant...air to air or otherwise...after my first tour. I don't remember thinking I would enjoy killing when I joined AFROTC and thought of doing 7 years then going to Delta Airlines. But I damn sure developed a taste for it when I understood that is what it took to get me home.
Thanks for your service past and present.USMCFLYR
03-11-2010, 09:46 AM
#27
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Dear Lord, Captfuzz, this ain't the huffington post and while they may appreciate your pacifism most of us appreciate those willing to serve and what they're willing to do and support those thinking about joining.
I was trying to share what honest advice I would give to someone considering joining the military. When I joined, it was because I wanted to serve, and because I was willing to give my life for something bigger than me and to protect others. That never changed. I still am, but I never really questioned all the slogans and cliches about military service, and it didn't benefit anyone involved (the military, myself, or anyone else) that I ignored those questions.
I wasn't willing to let the military convince me that the person I was fighting against was less human than me, or that a foreigner's life was less valuable than that of an American. That other person is probably more like me than they are different. They have their commendable traits and their less than commendable ones, and they are probably also convinced that what they're doing is the right thing and for the greater good.
If someone recognizes that and still believes it can be justifiable and necessary to kill them, then I can respect that even if I may not fully agree, and I can understand the attitude and mental state necessary to do that. There are plenty of people I served with that I know are trying to do what's right, and I respect them for it. I'm also well aware that, despite my best attempts, my understanding of how to live a just life will never be perfect nor will I have an exclusive claim to the truth.
03-11-2010, 11:04 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: A330B
Posts: 210
[QUOT
I wasn't willing to let the military convince me that the person I was fighting against was less human than me, or that a foreigner's life was less valuable than that of an American. That other person is probably more like me than they are different. They have their commendable traits and their less than commendable ones, and they are probably also convinced that what they're doing is the right thing and for the greater good.
Fuzz, I appreciate your comments and concerns, and your question about killing is valid in point, but seriously limited in scope. Most military pilots/aircrew will not be present at the "tip of the spear", and the mechanics of "killing" are not present in their warfighting skills. I flew Rescue, Electronic Warfare, and Airlift for 23 years and never busted a cap in combat. But I did see every enemy as less valuable, less human, than myself and my countrymen, only because I had an oath and obligation to uphold, and I knew the people on "our side". Alvin York was a religious conscientious objector in thought, in reality he was something entirely different.
I wasn't willing to let the military convince me that the person I was fighting against was less human than me, or that a foreigner's life was less valuable than that of an American. That other person is probably more like me than they are different. They have their commendable traits and their less than commendable ones, and they are probably also convinced that what they're doing is the right thing and for the greater good.
Fuzz, I appreciate your comments and concerns, and your question about killing is valid in point, but seriously limited in scope. Most military pilots/aircrew will not be present at the "tip of the spear", and the mechanics of "killing" are not present in their warfighting skills. I flew Rescue, Electronic Warfare, and Airlift for 23 years and never busted a cap in combat. But I did see every enemy as less valuable, less human, than myself and my countrymen, only because I had an oath and obligation to uphold, and I knew the people on "our side". Alvin York was a religious conscientious objector in thought, in reality he was something entirely different.
03-11-2010, 11:51 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,083
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
When I was in the FRS, my class had a grizzled LCDR going through a Cat III or IV syllabus with us. He called the class together on late afternoon for a meeting at the O'club at NAS Cecil Field. Come to find out that he just wanted to sit down with each of us and make sure that we each knew what we were getting into by choosing this line of work.
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