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Old 09-21-2019, 04:19 PM
  #541  
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Originally Posted by Learflyer View Post
The 121 guys $hitting on NJA have never lived through an economic downturn or have been furloughed.
You couldn't be more wrong.

I watched my regional furlough in 2001, and at Netjets, I watched my friends at airlines trucking right along, while my "furlough-proof" Netjets furloughed 500 people, very narrowly missing me.

I then got to "enjoy" being in the bottom 15% even past the ten year mark. So I had a combination of no better job security than the airlines, with much slower career progression (a recent upgrade into the Phenom has been at NJA well over 13 years).

So I left a couple of years ago. I left to go back to 121 after a decade at Netjets, and couldn't be happier with the change. I'm very glad to hear NJA is doing better as I have a lot of friends working there, but any illusion of the job being any more immune to the economy than an airline job was shattered in 2008.

The airline guys make a little more and sorta work less (your commuting and crash pads suck)
I don't commute, I don't have a crash pad, and frankly, I work a lot less in a given month.

I typically work 13 days a month. That's roughly 88 hours on duty and and about 200 hours away from home per month. A typical month at Netjets for me on the 7/7 in the Excel was about 160 hours on duty and 315 hours away from home. Even if I did commute (as I did for my first few months), I'd still be home more than I was at NJA.

I'm glad NJA is doing better, but having spent plenty of time on both sides of the fence, I'm personally much happier with the shorter duty days and better work/life balance in my 121 job.
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Old 09-21-2019, 05:00 PM
  #542  
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Alright. Once again the internet lives up to its name of being "one big misunderstanding." My point was we're in some good times right now, and the sense of gratitude just to have a job has diminished a ton. It's one of a few industries where "neener neener neener my job is meaner" comes into play too much. That's all i'm going to contribute.

No i'm not wrong. Neither of us are.
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Old 09-21-2019, 05:37 PM
  #543  
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Originally Posted by DH2time View Post
Wrong, wrong and wrong. Such ignorance in that post. I personally have gone through an airline shutdown, a NJA furlough and a shrinkage at NJA from over 600 airplane to 400. Other guys posting on this thread have gone through worse, in fact one former NJA on here has gone though 3 airline furloughs and/or shutdowns.

Most of the guys are not bashing NJA, in fact almost all have said it’s a good job but ALL have said stop the lying about the benefits of NJA. You got one who thinks going TEB-PBI is somehow different than EWR-MIA and it’s less boring while obviously eating out of a plastic box is respectable, but he only works 5 months a year somehow. While one thinks NJA pilots make so much money that they make Scrooge McDuck look poor. What it comes down to what we all say, like where you work but don’t misrepresent the facts to fit some narrative. They all have benefits and they all have things not so great. Enjoy where you are for what it is.
This! Bullseye
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Old 09-22-2019, 05:51 AM
  #544  
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Originally Posted by DH2time View Post
Wrong, wrong and wrong. Such ignorance in that post. I personally have gone through an airline shutdown, a NJA furlough and a shrinkage at NJA from over 600 airplane to 400. Other guys posting on this thread have gone through worse, in fact one former NJA on here has gone though 3 airline furloughs and/or shutdowns.

Most of the guys are not bashing NJA, in fact almost all have said it’s a good job but ALL have said stop the lying about the benefits of NJA. You got one who thinks going TEB-PBI is somehow different than EWR-MIA and it’s less boring while obviously eating out of a plastic box is respectable, but he only works 5 months a year somehow. While one thinks NJA pilots make so much money that they make Scrooge McDuck look poor. What it comes down to what we all say, like where you work but don’t misrepresent the facts to fit some narrative. They all have benefits and they all have things not so great. Enjoy where you are for what it is.
I just don't even get why your on this forum if your at a 121, go spend all that coin you make on all your days off, sounds like you guys have no life?
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Old 09-22-2019, 06:45 AM
  #545  
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Originally Posted by Guard View Post
I just don't even get why your on this forum if your at a 121, go spend all that coin you make on all your days off, sounds like you guys have no life?
Why? Cause I fought hard for NJASAP to make it a better place to hang ones shingle. I marched, I helped to organize and I showed up to make sure NJA went from a job that paid 39K a year to where it is now. It has a long way to go to get it to where it should to be, to where it NEEDS to be. Your lies about working 5 months a year and the lies about making the same as a NB pilot are dangerous for the pilot group and dangerous for new recruits. You have invested very little in the product that is NJA, very little, because you are new there and you should be learning the history about the place and what you can do to move the bar higher, not misrepresenting the facts to future recruits and help the management that reads these boards(BTW if you knew the history about NJA you would know that message boards were read by management in the past and used to measure the negotiating power of the work group, also used to plant discontent and try to splinter the pilot group at NJA). Twinkie boy ring a bell for anyone out there?

So I guess what I am saying is while I am no longer there I still have a vested interest in making sure my hard work did not go to waste. Move the bar higher and further cause a rising tilde lifts all boats. Don’t rest on the hard work others have done and misstate the facts as that moves the bar lower and hurts all your brothers and sisters that have worked or are working so hard in past, present and future to make sure that’s a place you can call a career. You got a long way to go and a large responsibility to improve that place....it’s better but keep moving forward together and in solidarity.
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Old 09-22-2019, 01:25 PM
  #546  
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Originally Posted by DH2time View Post
Wrong, wrong and wrong. Such ignorance in that post. I personally have gone through an airline shutdown, a NJA furlough and a shrinkage at NJA from over 600 airplane to 400. Other guys posting on this thread have gone through worse, in fact one former NJA on here has gone though 3 airline furloughs and/or shutdowns.

Most of the guys are not bashing NJA, in fact almost all have said it’s a good job but ALL have said stop the lying about the benefits of NJA. You got one who thinks going TEB-PBI is somehow different than EWR-MIA and it’s less boring while obviously eating out of a plastic box is respectable, but he only works 5 months a year somehow. While one thinks NJA pilots make so much money that they make Scrooge McDuck look poor. What it comes down to what we all say, like where you work but don’t misrepresent the facts to fit some narrative. They all have benefits and they all have things not so great. Enjoy where you are for what it is.
NetJets never attained a size over 520ish during the “banana hammock” years of Moisture to Sokol... speaking of misrepresentations.

Unless you include NJE and EJM.

Mechanical reliability was regularly south of 60% in those days. Today, with 441 planes and 80%+ reliability, NJA is a more solid performer than with 520 jets and 60% reliability.

312 working (520) 60% reliability /352 working 80% reliability (441)

Hell... I won’t be surprised to see 90% reliability (121 numbers) when the mx network fully deploys nationwide.

Last edited by Retractable; 09-22-2019 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 09-22-2019, 01:31 PM
  #547  
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Originally Posted by CA1900 View Post
You couldn't be more wrong.

I watched my regional furlough in 2001, and at Netjets, I watched my friends at airlines trucking right along, while my "furlough-proof" Netjets furloughed 500 people, very narrowly missing me.

I then got to "enjoy" being in the bottom 15% even past the ten year mark. So I had a combination of no better job security than the airlines, with much slower career progression (a recent upgrade into the Phenom has been at NJA well over 13 years).

So I left a couple of years ago. I left to go back to 121 after a decade at Netjets, and couldn't be happier with the change. I'm very glad to hear NJA is doing better as I have a lot of friends working there, but any illusion of the job being any more immune to the economy than an airline job was shattered in 2008.



I don't commute, I don't have a crash pad, and frankly, I work a lot less in a given month.

I typically work 13 days a month. That's roughly 88 hours on duty and and about 200 hours away from home per month. A typical month at Netjets for me on the 7/7 in the Excel was about 160 hours on duty and 315 hours away from home. Even if I did commute (as I did for my first few months), I'd still be home more than I was at NJA.

I'm glad NJA is doing better, but having spent plenty of time on both sides of the fence, I'm personally much happier with the shorter duty days and better work/life balance in my 121 job.
Pre IBI comparisons of NJA are, well... off. To accurately compare the two my friend. You’ve been gone too long. 😉

And it’s not all perfect when crossing over... many at SWA would be remiss not to mention the effects the MAX has had on seniority progression and earnings.


PS
I’m hoping for a solid fix and explosive growth following.

Last edited by Retractable; 09-22-2019 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 09-22-2019, 03:45 PM
  #548  
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Originally Posted by Retractable View Post
NetJets never attained a size over 520ish during the “banana hammock” years of Moisture to Sokol... speaking of misrepresentations.



Unless you include NJE and EJM.



Mechanical reliability was regularly south of 60% in those days. Today, with 441 planes and 80%+ reliability, NJA is a more solid performer than with 520 jets and 60% reliability.



312 working (520) 60% reliability /352 working 80% reliability (441)



Hell... I won’t be surprised to see 90% reliability (121 numbers) when the mx network fully deploys nationwide.
90% reliability with business jets is never going to happen on any sort of consistent basis. Ever. The new mx hub system helps improve reliability, but airplanes age and get less and less reliable no matter what you do.

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Old 09-23-2019, 01:38 AM
  #549  
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Originally Posted by DH2time View Post
Why? Cause I fought hard for NJASAP to make it a better place to hang ones shingle. I marched, I helped to organize and I showed up to make sure NJA went from a job that paid 39K a year to where it is now. It has a long way to go to get it to where it should to be, to where it NEEDS to be. Your lies about working 5 months a year and the lies about making the same as a NB pilot are dangerous for the pilot group and dangerous for new recruits. You have invested very little in the product that is NJA, very little, because you are new there and you should be learning the history about the place and what you can do to move the bar higher, not misrepresenting the facts to future recruits and help the management that reads these boards(BTW if you knew the history about NJA you would know that message boards were read by management in the past and used to measure the negotiating power of the work group, also used to plant discontent and try to splinter the pilot group at NJA). Twinkie boy ring a bell for anyone out there?

So I guess what I am saying is while I am no longer there I still have a vested interest in making sure my hard work did not go to waste. Move the bar higher and further cause a rising tilde lifts all boats. Don’t rest on the hard work others have done and misstate the facts as that moves the bar lower and hurts all your brothers and sisters that have worked or are working so hard in past, present and future to make sure that’s a place you can call a career. You got a long way to go and a large responsibility to improve that place....it’s better but keep moving forward together and in solidarity.
NJASAP, Thats why I love flying with Diamond Jim! I think this is a different place from what I am told now under the new FDP contract, guys want to work and make money and company gets smacked for crew ROT etc., I think more money is coming. Appreciate all that the Union has delivered and also the owners literals telling us "we pay more but there is no better product out there than NJA". Best of luck!
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Old 09-23-2019, 02:40 AM
  #550  
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Originally Posted by jtf560 View Post
90% reliability with business jets is never going to happen on any sort of consistent basis. Ever. The new mx hub system helps improve reliability, but airplanes age and get less and less reliable no matter what you do.

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Many of you have promised “never” was going to happen. Some of you are just rooted in the “NO Culture”.

I think you’re wrong.

84% just yesterday and the MX hubs are just getting warmed up. Small cabin frames being replaced at the 10 year mark and large cabin a little while longer... not like this last cycle. Advanced MX programs designed for “airline models” being implemented. It will happen and when it does, I’ll make sure to let you know.

The “NO Culture” was created by both the company and the union over successive years of fighting.

The “NO Culture” is losing steam and losing membership.

It’s time to succeed as a group.
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