So this is where I disagree, if you really want to make salaries to be a "more even field", the way to do that is to make salary consistant and no FDP. That would be a negative for the company since if the economy turns, they are only on the hook for salaires. I dont understand that IF FDP is so unfair, A. Why did the Union agree to it in the first place and B. Why would you want it to continue? Im a believer that if a company is going to be paying a lower salary, then the ability to make more money should be there when times are good. The pilots are taking on some risk (as is the company), if times are good everyone is making WAY more money than competitors (due to the risk), if you get a straight salary (or day rate), its a guarantee and should be less since now the risk is passed to the company.

 

FDP works fine for those that want to work. Doesn’t work so much for those that think that every preflight should be an A&P inspection.

 

The company tried for FDP in 2015 and was rejected. We accepted in 2018 and again in 2020 when they offered it up and then added more money to it when we were looking at it as free money since it was the company that came to us to negotiate years early. The variability was within reason until things cranked up in 2021 and various fleets started flying much more than others. The XLS and Sovereign fleets are just super old and break a lot. The Phenoms went through a lot of overhauls last year which kept many down and effectively overstaffed the fleet until they came back on line. The Longitudes had some mx issues that slowed them down for a while. Now the Lattitudes are going down in big numbers while in need of engine fan blades for the engines that are in need of overhaul. This at least temporarily overstaffed some fleets and causes more wide swings in earnings.

The company always wanted the FDP to keep the metal moving and since the union insisted on everyone getting the same rate, this makes it possible for junior pilots to crank up their pay. If we were to go straight salary, the metal wouldn't move as smoothly and the junior pilots would all leave and the company wouldn't be able to hire. We are going for big salary gains, but salary would likely have to go up over 75% to make up for the lack of FDP for junior pilots and that wouldn't even bring the average overall pay for junior pilots up much, if at all. The camels nose is under the tent so the best we can do is try to minimize the overall percentage of pay that the FDP provides and also even it out a bit while concentrating the gains on salary. The fight to crank it up will be exceedingly hard, but to drop FDP and then replace it all and greatly improve overall pay will simply not happen no matter how much we want it. Personally, I would prefer the hourly FDP go down to something like $50 an hour and start at zero hours flown. This would still incentivize moving metal while also making FDP more evenly distributed and a much lower percentage of salary. I'm sure that won't happen, but hopefully there will be some fixes made.

 

Of course people agreed with you. Everyone knew what it was for. You were just the only one to think it was a bad idea, well you (a disgruntled ex-employee) and those who would make a game of sport fatiguing. The rest of of justifiable believe that if you have a busier week, then you should earn more than someone who spends their week at the hotel pool.

Those of us who were here before FDP knew how it was to have a recovery added to their day for the same pay as someone, cough, who would brag on Facebook of going to the hotel for the same pay. And that is why FDP is a good thing.

 

Wth are you talking about? You obviously have no idea what I'm referring to when I say bribe money, do you? NJASAP took bribe money, but called it a "bonus check", in exchange for a ridiculously long contract extension. The senior pilots got ~$30,000, and the FOs were given scraps in comparison.

Btw, you might wanna check YOUR math on 10%.

 

I agree. The problem is that it wasn't a "bonus" for a job well done or whatever they claimed it was for. It was bribe money taken to concede something else (take your pick). They took the carrot and kicked the can MILES down the road for the rest of us.

And yes, any pilot 16.7 years seniority got $30,000. That was MOST of the captains.

 

It was most captains in 2020 and probably 75% of the captains in 2018 getting the full 30K and I agree the bonus is basically a bribe to vote yes. That is part of the reason why I voted no in 2018. I'll admit to voting yes in 2020 after FDP was entrenched and we already had 2 ridiculously long contract extentions from 2015 and 2018. By that point all I could do is hope that the extensions wouldn't mean anything and judging by how often we were getting more money thrown at us, it was likely a good bet. I just don't believe management realized how much the next one would cost and they are now fighting it. I don't believe anyone thought or said the bonus was for anything other than getting the conract settled.
As far as kicking the van down the road even further, I guess I don't agree. We are fighting now for QOL improvements before we will even tell management how much money we want in top of them. Technically, they can put off any negotiations until 2029, but they know they have to bump it up again if they want to hire and retain. They are just trying to cheap out on how much they need to bump it up.

 

I know what you are referring to. We the pilot group are NJASAP, we voted to accept the contract. It wasn’t some select couple of individuals that said yes to a bribe. The bribe (bonus) you are referring to is paid out by how many months you have been employed by NJ with a cap of $30k. A Capt that has been here for a long time will obviously get more than a junior pilot that hasn’t. How many people vote yes for that I can’t answer but I don’t think too many were swayed by an extra $5k a year for the extension.

Not sure what you mean by checking my math on 10%. Is the bonus of 10% for fuel/performance or whatever equate to more money for a senior pilot than it does for a junior pilot? Obviously because they have a higher salary. The question to ask is how quickly that bonus disappears when times get tough.

 

Oh yes they most certainly did. Nearly every pro-union pilot I asked about it said "it's a bonus for our efforts". Or "Well, that's just the way it's always been done so..."

The same one's always complaining about QOL and pay are too dumb to realize that their "bonus checks" are what's standing in the way of making real long-term gains.

 

If anyone has come to this thread looking for answers to questions regarding Flexjet that haven't been answered, feel free to PM me. I know sifting through dozens of pages of posts looking for good info can sometimes be discouraging.

I'm hardly a recruiter, and Flexjet is not a perfect company by any means, but it's the best job I've had in aviation and I'm happy here. I think the majority of our pilot group would say the same.

Either way you go, it's a good time to be getting into the industry. We've got 23 year olds with R-ATP mins making into 6 figures when I was making sub $15k at their age and experience level.

Best of luck to everyone!