Eat your young
08-23-2023, 04:53 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 453
[QUOTE=jtf560;3682138]
The same thing they did to all of us- refusing to pay inflation age wages. Crank it up to pay up. Do everything within our legal power to crank it up. They will not pay what we are asking until it is cheaper to pay us what we are asking or risk letting the company bleed out more than we are asking. This is what got us contracts in 05, 15, and 18. They did not pay out what they did because they wanted to. They paid out because they had to. So far there isn't enough pressure to have to. As more pilots get on the angry train, that will change. If they just surface negotiate as they come to the table again, the angry train will get longer at an even faster speed than before. I'm kind of hoping for that because I don't believe we are anywhere near the pressure level to force the big improvements that the majority are seeking.
How are they refusing to pay you? They're paying you what you agreed to. So, now that someone else got a larger piece of chicken, you act like 5 year Olds and cry found because life isn't fair? You chased the last contract and greed will not win out. "They have the money, they will give us that money" ok, says WHO? The palace keeper? The man whose kids call him "President" to stroke the ego. When he's ousted, he will probably quit. Just like every "leader" who doesn't listen and makes terrible mistakes against the advisement of his board and his lead negotiators. How's section 6 tactics working out for you during an interest based session or whatever you call it? Rumor has it, the billboards are going to start targeting the BH Board of Directors. Even crack heads don't stoop this low. Geez, your blind faith has lead you down a path of incompetence following the musings of a tainted leader. He only knows one playbook. I was taking to another NJ guy in the terminal last week. He said the longer this drags it the higher his price is? Seriously? What a joke. Maybe when you get serious and stop chasing Delta wages for a 7/7 phenom driver, maybe you'll get somewhere. The fact of the matter is, you're blinded by greed. They pick the 1 delta 350 captain who made 500k to base what you should ask for. Maybe when you get realistic and on the same planet, and actually negotiate in this galaxy, you'll get somewhere. PL has lead you astray just as he did before at his previous airline. All the while taking your dues and blowing it on his personal vendetta. When it doesn't work, he will throw the usual people under the bus and walk right over them. He's no leader. Leaders don't lead by fear and intimidation. I bet if you have a normal opinion that happens to go against the king, you're sent to the brig. Labeled with a scarlet L. Is that real leadership? Elections have consequences. I hate seeing a good place burned to the ground. I've got many many friends there. It's hard to watch.
Originally Posted by Swedepilut
The same thing they did to all of us- refusing to pay inflation age wages. Crank it up to pay up. Do everything within our legal power to crank it up. They will not pay what we are asking until it is cheaper to pay us what we are asking or risk letting the company bleed out more than we are asking. This is what got us contracts in 05, 15, and 18. They did not pay out what they did because they wanted to. They paid out because they had to. So far there isn't enough pressure to have to. As more pilots get on the angry train, that will change. If they just surface negotiate as they come to the table again, the angry train will get longer at an even faster speed than before. I'm kind of hoping for that because I don't believe we are anywhere near the pressure level to force the big improvements that the majority are seeking.
08-23-2023, 05:37 AM
#22
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 88
[QUOTE=JMO127;3686841]
Good Lord, there is so much crap in this post it’s hard to nail it down. Apparently, despite not working for us, you are angry at our union President. Who, btw, has done nothing but follow the wishes of this pilot group. I know this b/c we have taken multiple surveys regarding pay, QOL, how aggressive the union should be, and the general perception of the union and company.
Pedro is following the pilot group’s desires.
As far as wanting more… of course we want more! Do you think Corporations and share-holders are the only ones allowed to want more? It makes sense to me that labor should get a piece of the pie, since we MADE THE PIE! AA Pilots are getting a 46% increase in pay in their new TA… I think that’s great!
You, on the other hand, apparently think pilots should never ask for more. Sorry AA pilots, I know DL and UA pilots are poaching your pilots and your contract is falling further and further behind in pay and QOL, but JMO127 doesn’t believe pilots should ask for more. Don’t be “blinded by greed”.
Originally Posted by jtf560
How are they refusing to pay you? They're paying you what you agreed to. So, now that someone else got a larger piece of chicken, you act like 5 year Olds and cry found because life isn't fair? You chased the last contract and greed will not win out. "They have the money, they will give us that money" ok, says WHO? The palace keeper? The man whose kids call him "President" to stroke the ego. When he's ousted, he will probably quit. Just like every "leader" who doesn't listen and makes terrible mistakes against the advisement of his board and his lead negotiators. How's section 6 tactics working out for you during an interest based session or whatever you call it? Rumor has it, the billboards are going to start targeting the BH Board of Directors. Even crack heads don't stoop this low. Geez, your blind faith has lead you down a path of incompetence following the musings of a tainted leader. He only knows one playbook. I was taking to another NJ guy in the terminal last week. He said the longer this drags it the higher his price is? Seriously? What a joke. Maybe when you get serious and stop chasing Delta wages for a 7/7 phenom driver, maybe you'll get somewhere. The fact of the matter is, you're blinded by greed. They pick the 1 delta 350 captain who made 500k to base what you should ask for. Maybe when you get realistic and on the same planet, and actually negotiate in this galaxy, you'll get somewhere. PL has lead you astray just as he did before at his previous airline. All the while taking your dues and blowing it on his personal vendetta. When it doesn't work, he will throw the usual people under the bus and walk right over them. He's no leader. Leaders don't lead by fear and intimidation. I bet if you have a normal opinion that happens to go against the king, you're sent to the brig. Labeled with a scarlet L. Is that real leadership? Elections have consequences. I hate seeing a good place burned to the ground. I've got many many friends there. It's hard to watch.
Pedro is following the pilot group’s desires.
As far as wanting more… of course we want more! Do you think Corporations and share-holders are the only ones allowed to want more? It makes sense to me that labor should get a piece of the pie, since we MADE THE PIE! AA Pilots are getting a 46% increase in pay in their new TA… I think that’s great!
You, on the other hand, apparently think pilots should never ask for more. Sorry AA pilots, I know DL and UA pilots are poaching your pilots and your contract is falling further and further behind in pay and QOL, but JMO127 doesn’t believe pilots should ask for more. Don’t be “blinded by greed”.
08-23-2023, 05:52 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 453
[QUOTE=Tiggerpilot;3686869]
Good Lord, there is so much crap in this post it’s hard to nail it down. Apparently, despite not working for us, you are angry at our union President. Who, btw, has done nothing but follow the wishes of this pilot group. I know this b/c we have taken multiple surveys regarding pay, QOL, how aggressive the union should be, and the general perception of the union and company.
Pedro is following the pilot group’s desires.
As far as wanting more… of course we want more! Do you think Corporations and share-holders are the only ones allowed to want more? It makes sense to me that labor should get a piece of the pie, since we MADE THE PIE! AA Pilots are getting a 46% increase in pay in their new TA… I think that’s great!
You, on the other hand, apparently think pilots should never ask for more. Sorry AA pilots, I know DL and UA pilots are poaching your pilots and your contract is falling further and further behind in pay and QOL, but JMO127 doesn’t believe pilots should ask for more. Don’t be “blinded by greed”.
Not what I said. But asking for 400k for a 52 day schedule is a bit outlandish. Don't you think? Regardless of how many times you fly the global into ASE. Want more work more. Same way at the airlines.
Originally Posted by JMO127
Good Lord, there is so much crap in this post it’s hard to nail it down. Apparently, despite not working for us, you are angry at our union President. Who, btw, has done nothing but follow the wishes of this pilot group. I know this b/c we have taken multiple surveys regarding pay, QOL, how aggressive the union should be, and the general perception of the union and company.
Pedro is following the pilot group’s desires.
As far as wanting more… of course we want more! Do you think Corporations and share-holders are the only ones allowed to want more? It makes sense to me that labor should get a piece of the pie, since we MADE THE PIE! AA Pilots are getting a 46% increase in pay in their new TA… I think that’s great!
You, on the other hand, apparently think pilots should never ask for more. Sorry AA pilots, I know DL and UA pilots are poaching your pilots and your contract is falling further and further behind in pay and QOL, but JMO127 doesn’t believe pilots should ask for more. Don’t be “blinded by greed”.
08-23-2023, 07:22 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 240
[QUOTE=JMO127;3686878]
Pretty sure not many if any are asking for $400k for a 52 day schedule, claiming people are is actually pretty outlandish.
I’ll ask you the same thing I have asked other former employees that keep coming back here. When did you work here and why did you leave? Why do you have such a bone to pick with NJ?
Originally Posted by Tiggerpilot
Not what I said. But asking for 400k for a 52 day schedule is a bit outlandish. Don't you think? Regardless of how many times you fly the global into ASE. Want more work more. Same way at the airlines.
I’ll ask you the same thing I have asked other former employees that keep coming back here. When did you work here and why did you leave? Why do you have such a bone to pick with NJ?
08-23-2023, 09:26 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2019
Posts: 125
[QUOTE=JMO127;3686841]
Excellent post. And so many share the same thoughts, the same comments, often on the road you hear the "what a bunch of adult children", "they are so disconnected", "immature and unrealistic request" "what QOL are we negotiating, I would like to know what I apparently need". So many are getting tired of the union's narrative. They are politicians playing politicians who love a good crisis and have no interest in fixing it. Take the fight away and they have no meaning.
Acting like a bunch spoiled 10 percenters who are just jealous that the 121's are making that much more because they were lucky the post-covid crisis came when their contract expired. The NetJets children have it better than ever in their career, make more than ever in their career but they want to be pay Delta widebody pay, to work less, call fatigue after 6 hours of work, refuse their crew meal if there's too much salt, or not enough sauce, and love just staying in hotels and find every excuse not to do the flying. They are never going to be happy, anywhere, they wouldn't last at a regional and would be *****ing about the job if they made it to a major.
Originally Posted by jtf560
How are they refusing to pay you? They're paying you what you agreed to. So, now that someone else got a larger piece of chicken, you act like 5 year Olds and cry found because life isn't fair? You chased the last contract and greed will not win out. "They have the money, they will give us that money" ok, says WHO? The palace keeper? The man whose kids call him "President" to stroke the ego. When he's ousted, he will probably quit. Just like every "leader" who doesn't listen and makes terrible mistakes against the advisement of his board and his lead negotiators. How's section 6 tactics working out for you during an interest based session or whatever you call it? Rumor has it, the billboards are going to start targeting the BH Board of Directors. Even crack heads don't stoop this low. Geez, your blind faith has lead you down a path of incompetence following the musings of a tainted leader. He only knows one playbook. I was taking to another NJ guy in the terminal last week. He said the longer this drags it the higher his price is? Seriously? What a joke. Maybe when you get serious and stop chasing Delta wages for a 7/7 phenom driver, maybe you'll get somewhere. The fact of the matter is, you're blinded by greed. They pick the 1 delta 350 captain who made 500k to base what you should ask for. Maybe when you get realistic and on the same planet, and actually negotiate in this galaxy, you'll get somewhere. PL has lead you astray just as he did before at his previous airline. All the while taking your dues and blowing it on his personal vendetta. When it doesn't work, he will throw the usual people under the bus and walk right over them. He's no leader. Leaders don't lead by fear and intimidation. I bet if you have a normal opinion that happens to go against the king, you're sent to the brig. Labeled with a scarlet L. Is that real leadership? Elections have consequences. I hate seeing a good place burned to the ground. I've got many many friends there. It's hard to watch.
Acting like a bunch spoiled 10 percenters who are just jealous that the 121's are making that much more because they were lucky the post-covid crisis came when their contract expired. The NetJets children have it better than ever in their career, make more than ever in their career but they want to be pay Delta widebody pay, to work less, call fatigue after 6 hours of work, refuse their crew meal if there's too much salt, or not enough sauce, and love just staying in hotels and find every excuse not to do the flying. They are never going to be happy, anywhere, they wouldn't last at a regional and would be *****ing about the job if they made it to a major.
08-23-2023, 09:51 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 202
[QUOTE=JMO127;3686841]
I love this quote, "Leaders don't lead by fear and intimidation." You obviously have never worked for NetJets. This is the epitome of what Netajets is and always will be. Thank god we got a great union.
Originally Posted by jtf560
How are they refusing to pay you? They're paying you what you agreed to. So, now that someone else got a larger piece of chicken, you act like 5 year Olds and cry found because life isn't fair? You chased the last contract and greed will not win out. "They have the money, they will give us that money" ok, says WHO? The palace keeper? The man whose kids call him "President" to stroke the ego. When he's ousted, he will probably quit. Just like every "leader" who doesn't listen and makes terrible mistakes against the advisement of his board and his lead negotiators. How's section 6 tactics working out for you during an interest based session or whatever you call it? Rumor has it, the billboards are going to start targeting the BH Board of Directors. Even crack heads don't stoop this low. Geez, your blind faith has lead you down a path of incompetence following the musings of a tainted leader. He only knows one playbook. I was taking to another NJ guy in the terminal last week. He said the longer this drags it the higher his price is? Seriously? What a joke. Maybe when you get serious and stop chasing Delta wages for a 7/7 phenom driver, maybe you'll get somewhere. The fact of the matter is, you're blinded by greed. They pick the 1 delta 350 captain who made 500k to base what you should ask for. Maybe when you get realistic and on the same planet, and actually negotiate in this galaxy, you'll get somewhere. PL has lead you astray just as he did before at his previous airline. All the while taking your dues and blowing it on his personal vendetta. When it doesn't work, he will throw the usual people under the bus and walk right over them. He's no leader. Leaders don't lead by fear and intimidation. I bet if you have a normal opinion that happens to go against the king, you're sent to the brig. Labeled with a scarlet L. Is that real leadership? Elections have consequences. I hate seeing a good place burned to the ground. I've got many many friends there. It's hard to watch.
08-23-2023, 10:01 AM
#27
Mmmm wine
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Position: A220 FO
Posts: 958
Originally Posted by SonnyTuckson
]
Acting like a bunch spoiled 10 percenters who are just jealous that the 121's are making that much more because they were lucky the post-covid crisis came when their contract expired.
Acting like a bunch spoiled 10 percenters who are just jealous that the 121's are making that much more because they were lucky the post-covid crisis came when their contract expired.
The airlines as a whole have negotiated their butts off for what they have. Most major airlines in the last 2 years alone have approved strike votes, asked to be released from the NMB, voted down AIPs, and a couple have gutted their entire MEC and NCs to get what they want. NJA management, the union, and the pilot group were fat dumb, and happy with the situation until they saw the airlines get bigger slices of cake at the birthday party. Post COVID economy is good which of course helps but just about all of the airlines were in negotiations BEFORE that. Everyone rides the coattails in this industry to an extent, but the hard work has to be done within each pilot group, and its union. Luck has nothing to do with where the airlines are at right now. Just as luck or lack of luck, has nothing to do with where NJA is right now. You as a pilot group got exactly what you voted for. The union and pilot group shot themselves in the foot and are now throwing a tantrum like they have been wronged. It is actually a bit pathetic. Your pilot group isn't even unified in what it wants, or its support of the union. You all aren't only eating your young, you are eating each other.
08-23-2023, 11:03 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2021
Posts: 199
Originally Posted by MinRest
I'll stop ya right there.
The airlines as a whole have negotiated their butts off for what they have. Most major airlines in the last 2 years alone have approved strike votes, asked to be released from the NMB, voted down AIPs, and a couple have gutted their entire MEC and NCs to get what they want. NJA management, the union, and the pilot group were fat dumb, and happy with the situation until they saw the airlines get bigger slices of cake at the birthday party. Post COVID economy is good which of course helps but just about all of the airlines were in negotiations BEFORE that. Everyone rides the coattails in this industry to an extent, but the hard work has to be done within each pilot group, and its union. Luck has nothing to do with where the airlines are at right now. Just as luck or lack of luck, has nothing to do with where NJA is right now. You as a pilot group got exactly what you voted for. The union and pilot group shot themselves in the foot and are now throwing a tantrum like they have been wronged. It is actually a bit pathetic. Your pilot group isn't even unified in what it wants, or its support of the union. You all aren't only eating your young, you are eating each other.
The airlines as a whole have negotiated their butts off for what they have. Most major airlines in the last 2 years alone have approved strike votes, asked to be released from the NMB, voted down AIPs, and a couple have gutted their entire MEC and NCs to get what they want. NJA management, the union, and the pilot group were fat dumb, and happy with the situation until they saw the airlines get bigger slices of cake at the birthday party. Post COVID economy is good which of course helps but just about all of the airlines were in negotiations BEFORE that. Everyone rides the coattails in this industry to an extent, but the hard work has to be done within each pilot group, and its union. Luck has nothing to do with where the airlines are at right now. Just as luck or lack of luck, has nothing to do with where NJA is right now. You as a pilot group got exactly what you voted for. The union and pilot group shot themselves in the foot and are now throwing a tantrum like they have been wronged. It is actually a bit pathetic. Your pilot group isn't even unified in what it wants, or its support of the union. You all aren't only eating your young, you are eating each other.
08-23-2023, 11:09 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,031
[QUOTE=SonnyTuckson;3686976]
Excellent post. And so many share the same thoughts, the same comments, often on the road you hear the "what a bunch of adult children", "they are so disconnected", "immature and unrealistic request" "what QOL are we negotiating, I would like to know what I apparently need". So many are getting tired of the union's narrative. They are politicians playing politicians who love a good crisis and have no interest in fixing it. Take the fight away and they have no meaning.
Acting like a bunch spoiled 10 percenters who are just jealous that the 121's are making that much more because they were lucky the post-covid crisis came when their contract expired. The NetJets children have it better than ever in their career, make more than ever in their career but they want to be pay Delta widebody pay, to work less, call fatigue after 6 hours of work, refuse their crew meal if there's too much salt, or not enough sauce, and love just staying in hotels and find every excuse not to do the flying. They are never going to be happy, anywhere, they wouldn't last at a regional and would be *****ing about the job if they made it to a major.
Why would you not want more when there is finally plenty to give? The pay is better than ever before, of you are willing to work more days than ever before, but so what? It can be much more without having to work so many days to achieve it. The job itself is NOT better than ever. Management is NOT managing the business well. They are pushing every department to the breaking point and leaving those at the tip of the spear to fix the problems. I'm tired of dispatch being unable to do their job correctly. I'm tired of having crew food not show up. I'm tired of ITP dropping the ball. I'm tired of having to do more than before to make things work. That is most definitely NOT better than ever before. I, and many more each day, are refusing to fix the problems that incompetent management is causing. I get doing your best to feel satisfied and to have your glass half full, but not trying to have better when it is available is just sad. Are you afraid to fight? Are you afraid to have better? Do you fear that the fight will kill your mediocre job? Did someone from leadership hurt your feelings so now you are willing to argue against them even to your own detriment? I get the feeling I'm just arguing in circles with management or someone looking for an SDP position, but you got me to bite once again. Maybe next time I'll be able to keep my hands off the keyboard since I'm sure I can't convince you and there is no way you will ever convince me.
Originally Posted by JMO127
Excellent post. And so many share the same thoughts, the same comments, often on the road you hear the "what a bunch of adult children", "they are so disconnected", "immature and unrealistic request" "what QOL are we negotiating, I would like to know what I apparently need". So many are getting tired of the union's narrative. They are politicians playing politicians who love a good crisis and have no interest in fixing it. Take the fight away and they have no meaning.
Acting like a bunch spoiled 10 percenters who are just jealous that the 121's are making that much more because they were lucky the post-covid crisis came when their contract expired. The NetJets children have it better than ever in their career, make more than ever in their career but they want to be pay Delta widebody pay, to work less, call fatigue after 6 hours of work, refuse their crew meal if there's too much salt, or not enough sauce, and love just staying in hotels and find every excuse not to do the flying. They are never going to be happy, anywhere, they wouldn't last at a regional and would be *****ing about the job if they made it to a major.
08-24-2023, 07:12 AM
#30
Mmmm wine
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Position: A220 FO
Posts: 958
Originally Posted by ZebraSpots
Since you brought up airlines on a NetJets thread… Do you think the Alaska crash in SNA 2 days ago was the result of pilot error or maintenance?
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