There are people at NetJets who needed more than 30 landings and they are still here. I'm not aware of anyone fired for not completing IOE in 2 or 3 blocks. Even though the company could fire them for having two "HR failures". My point is, contrary to what you read on the internal message board the company does not hire to fire. They are willing to work with new hires that struggle in training. Yes, exceptions exist but when you look closer at those cases usually you see major training deficiencies or bad attitude.

You are probably correct about IOE failures not being reported to PRD but I don't have a way to confirm that. Mine was only one block and the pass doesn't show in the PRD. But other nonsense like Leadership and Command, Door Drills etc are there. 🤷

 

There is no block 4 for an INH on IOE. If the PUI does not complete IOE in block 3, the company may reach out to the SDP in order to help make a decision on the new hires. Of the dozen or so of which I am familiar with in my fleet over the past 3ish years, 5 or 6 of them were immediately given the option to resign in lieu or termination. Another 3 or 4 resigned after being given a few more landings and still not completing IOE. Additionally, you get 2 failures per event. If you aren't recommended for the checkride, for example, that is one failure, if you then are recommended, pass the oral, but ding the simulator, that is your second failure. We have had numerous failures resulting from the type rating checkride. I've even hear the training department implore the SDPs.to counsel new hires to wait until they are ready before bidding a large cabin aircraft. (The Union simply tells probationary pilots not to bid a large cabin aircraft until they are off probation and are then eligible to have 4 failures + retreat rights)

I understand the argument that it is just a CRJ, but our training department is not set up to train pilots who have never flown a jet before. The Global training is even less prepared. I don't understand why someone would bid a global and risk their career. Is it that bad to fly a lattitude for a year before bidding a large cabin fleet at which time there are nearly zero consequences if you have trouble in training?

All this being said, starting about 6 months ago, the experience level of new hires has increased dramatically and I expect that some of the training issues have decreased.

 

You are correct, no one is fired for not completing IOE in block 2. That would be the first failure. Non probationary pilots can go to block 4, but that's only another 4 landing, which is 28 landing.

Going into the non-existent block 4 as a new hire is not a place I'd want to be. Most finish at the beginning of block 2. I've never seen anyone go into block 3. Even 172 CFI, no jet time finish in block 2.

I'm not going to debate the rest of it with you. That's the process. @illinipilot nailed it. That's what happens.


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You're right; I was more defending that it does not haunt your career going into block 3. And I was completely wrong about block 4.

 

Yes, the Global is a modernized CRJ. The issue with the Global, to me, was the avionics. There are at least three ways to do everything, which by itself can be a challenge when new and have zero muscle memory. Even coming from a different Collin's suite. My issue was the training. If you get half a dozen different instructors who like to display their brilliance and a 'do it my way' attitude, there is a problem. If initial emphasized one way, allowing one to develope that muscle memory, the program would be far easier. Let the new folks learn the other ways on the road.

Between the rush to AQP and adding new fleets, our training department is a bit challenged. The end user, the initial pilot, will find the Global training more challenging than most.

 

how’s training on the challenger 350, is it considered more difficult/higher washout rate than the citations

 

It's a plane. It has wings. Two big engines, they make loud noises. VROOM VROOM! It doesn't have Garmin 5000 but if that scares you then you are in a wrong line of work.

I hear people really like flying it. More than 650. The washout rates are kept secret but based on total number of departures it seems to be overall low across all fleets combined.

 

In January seniority list, we had 15 pilots leave and 7 of them had been here less then 6 months. As there is very little hiring at the Legacy carriers, one could assume it was due to training issues. Don't really know, but that is pretty high number to leave in 6 months employment

 

I found it was pretty good, however, everyone in my type rating class had previous Collins avionics experience, so no one struggled with it. The instructors spent almost zero time instructing on the Collins avionics, so if you don't have any prior experience with it I'd imagine you may need to spend some extra time after hours to figure it out. As far as I recall, none of the ground instructors or the sim instructors I had during training had any experience flying the 350, but I still found them very knowledgeable for the most part.

I don't know if the 350 is more difficult compared to Textron/Embraer, but out of the 12 people that were in my type rating class I don't believe anyone failed the oral or sim. All I would say is if it's your first jet or you have never used Collins avionics before, I would not recommend the 350.

 

Thank you for the informative response, very helpful information beyond telling me the engines go vroom as the other gentleman did. I’ll be coming from a crj700. The guy that did my sim eval in Columbus said not to ask for the 350 because people are failing out, so was wondering if there’s a cultural/instructor issue in that department