I wouldn't count on a quick award to a large cabin in the first year. Past performance does not guarantee future results, especially once we get the BBJs back, the supersonic jet I came for, and the eVTOL that will change the game in congested ramp space. Is it not the same thing as a helicopter that's already operational?

 

You're not wrong, nothing can be counted on in this industry. But that's like saying don't count on working here at all because you may get furloughed one day. Could NJ stop waving seat locks for large cabin bids? Yes. Could they get rid of all large cabin fleet? Also, yes. Should you base your career decisions on these expectations? Only you have the answer.

 

All true. The Global churn that made it so junior and so fast to get into was mostly solved by the 24 month seat lock no matter what if you make that jump. There are still a bunch of 650 bids that will go quite junior, but those are likely to calm down quite a bit also.

 

Plenty of young FOs have been taking GLC FO bids while still on probation. Personally, I think they are OUT OF THEIR MINDS. I get that they want the international and larger aircraft experience before seat-locking themselves with their first upgrade to PIC. But they have no retreat rights while on probation. And there have been a fair number of failures/terminations of probies. Nobody thinks it can happen to them but ANYBODY can have a bad day, run into an evaluator with a chip on the shoulder, whatever. Be smart and wait a few more months.

JMHO

 

Do you know how many were terminated because they failed large cabin training while still on probation? I only know of one and as I understand there were some additional concerns with that individual, but you're saying it's a fair number. I'm curious how many?

Yes it's a jeopardy event but it's not like Phenom initial can't be failed while on probation. After all didn't we have an A320 pilot who failed their initial in a small cabin jet because they couldn't fly a circling approach?

 

A union Steward that I ran into recently didn't give me an exact number but said it was "more than a handful."

The difference between failing an initial and failing a transition to a GLC airplane while on probation is that is that you didn't HAVE to expose yourself to that second jeopardy event. Initial new-hire training failures happen and for lots of different reasons. But exposing yourself a second time within a year when you already have the job, have passed intitial training, and don't have any retreat rights yet isn't smart poker in my view.

"It's six months Harold...it's a HOCKEY season."

 

APC won't let me type just "Word" because it's too short. so...

Word to you mother.

 

Thing is you can bid and get large cabin before you go to the small cabin initial. So no extra jeopardy event.

It's concerning to hear that a number of new hires were terminated because they failed training. That means they had two failures in a row without a pass in between. I have no idea about Globals but failing CL65 training? That's baby's first jet for thousands of regional pilots. I'd be curious to hear the actual number and how it compares to initial busts in small cabin, somehow I think the failure rate is comparable.

Anyways, my intent was not to tell people what to do. I just wanted to say the large cabin path is still an option for those who want it. Personally, if I wanted large cabin and was still on probation I'd bid it without thinking twice. But I'm not new to flying swept wing aircraft with hydraulic controls and complicated systems. If I was a Cessna 172 CFI maybe I'd be more careful.

 

Nobody gets to "bid" a fleet at indoc. Newbies fill out their "dream sheet" but invariably get assigned to all kinds of fleets EXCEPT the GLC. Haven't heard of a single case of a CL-605 bid dropping in between indoc and initial such that a new hire's initial is in the 605. That means TWO training events. Read: Second Jeopardy Event while on probation.

Work smarter, not harder.

 

I don’t think it matters if you pass an event in between the failures? If you have two unsats in the type course on probation, won’t you be terminated?